Two PCs, same problems.

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/08/24/715752.aspx

I hope it's improved with age

What's your point? That link is pushing nearly 2 years old.

Don't equate IE7 in Vista to IE7 in XP, I see the overall improvement in security and when they reach maturity they may turn into more accepted programs. I guess drastic change is uncomfortable to many and I find it easier to upgrade to IE 7 than to downgrade to IE 6. As stated earlier for secure surfing FF w/noscript is superior to a default IE 7 in either OS

As stated earlier for secure surfing FF w/noscript is superior to a default IE 7 in either OS

OMG! This is feculent blather straight out of the MS Bashing Handbook! You are all over the place on this - throwing pot-shots everywhere - first defending IE6, then complaining something about IE's lousy anti-virus capabilities (???), now about IE7's default settings. Well, this, then I am out of here.

Yes, folks, if you:

• haphazardly wander about the Internet,
• follow links on porn sites,
• steal copyrighted materials in the form of illegal copies of programs,
• participate in illegal P2P fileshareing of music and video,
• are lax at keeping Windows and your security programs updated with the latest security patches and critical updates,
• are careless about scanning downloads and attachments before opening or installing,
• click on unsolicited links,

…then yes, absolutely, you are better off with Firefox or another non-IE based browser. In fact, you would be better off going with an entirely different platform, say Linux or MacOS, or cell phone.

Superior to a default IE 7, he says. So you go to Tools, Options, and make a couple clicks, and PRESTO!!!

Too hard?

Don't equate IE7 in Vista to IE7 in XP

Huh? Where did that happen? Nevertheless, they would not be off much by doing so - the two versions are MUCH more alike than different. And IE7, in any version, is much better than the horribly insecure (by "default"), IE6.

I see the overall improvement in security and when they reach maturity they may turn into more accepted programs.

??? More accepted? Sorry dude, but again, that's from a narrow perspective and does not reflect mainstream reality.

Do not be fooled by what "you see"! Especially in a HJT forum! Doctors see illnesses and injured people all day long - that does not mean the majority of the people on Earth are sick or injured. Nor should the mechanic at the Ford dealership believe Fords are lousy cars because Fords are what he sees all day. You are obviously a sharp person, DaChew - I suggest hitting Google a little harder to verify facts before taking a stand - that's what I do. Look at the BIG numbers, NOT just what you read on these forums or what you see in your daily life. I see a lot a problems with ASUS motherboards - does that mean they are bad? No. In fact, they are very good - and popular, there are many of them out there - so looking at the numbers, I see more of them. Looking at percentages, ASUS makes reliable boards.

The reason why you don't see large number of FF users posting HJT logs is simple, for two basic reason:

• There are fewer FF users
• FF users are by their very nature more experienced users who already have an established, safe computing discipline in place. It's their computing habits and layered defenses with multiple anti-malware techniques deployed that make them safe, not simply FF.

I asked earlier in general - now I ask you, did your computer stop getting compromised then turned into a remotely controlled zombie in a botnet simply by switching to FF? Do you go places now that you would never go with IE? I bet not - you are not a fool!

Most computer users are not computer enthusiasts, but see their computers simply as a word/email processor and communications appliance in the house. Most computer users do not use alternative browsers, but use IE7. Most computer users allow their computers (or network admin) to automatically update their computers and Windows. And funny thing, most computer users are still safe, and their computers uncompromised, and working fine.

I do not argue that FF is a fine browser, it is. I am not using IE because I don't like FF. I do like FF. I happen to like IE better - as do most of my non-geek friends, family, and nearly all clients.

FF does have a few "inherent" security features that are nice. But IE7 is also a good browser and has several nice features too. So it is simply marketing and/or MS bashing hype to suggest, imply or state outright that one browser is "superior" based on a few features alone, and it is wrong to suggest someone is automatically secure, just by switching to an alternative browser because that browser blocks this or that by default, and the other does not.

Are you safer in an SUV? Not if you consider rollovers. There are always exceptions… extremes.

I am not defending Microsoft, the company - I've picked a few bones with them over the years, primarily over their marketing tactics in the early years of Windows. NO browser is without serious faults - FF2.x has had more then enough Criticals too. Don't be fooled into thinking badguys target only IE users, or they target IE users just because they hate Microsoft. Badguys will turn on each other if it gets them money or recognition in scum pond. Badguys target numbers, and evidence shows FF users are being targeted more than ever, and that is likely to continue as the number of FF users increase - especially with Vista here to stay, and the less secure XP and its version(s) of IE (eventually, inevitable) phase out.

The facts are a user MUST practice safe computing in the same manner regardless the browser used. They still must keep their computers patched, updated, scanned, and blocked. They still must avoid places where authorities turn a blind eye.

Bottom line - use the browser that has the look and feel you like! We must not fall for fanboy hype from EITHER side! Then check out the US-CERT Article, Securing Your Web Browser. Ensure all your other defenses are up and current, and stay away from sites and activities your grandma would disapprove of.

Can I ask are you running sound cards if yes what sound cards you are using. If they are Creative can you press ctrl alt del to bring up task manager. Do you see a dllml.exe if yes end the task. Cheers peterm

An update for you all………. 1) SP3 caused the slowdowns to each of the PCs….why? I don't know……maybe it is to get us to switch to Vista?? 2) Had a helluva job removing them…..meant a complete format and re-install of OS etc on both PCs. 3) IE7 works OK without SP3, but I suspect it is at risk because of that. 4) I found that Windows Media Connect needed to be disabled (removed eventually). 5) Microsoft Intellipoint Mouse Update causes the Photoshop blink/flicker effect….my advice: do not update it if you use Photoshop….and….keep the original driver stashed away safe because the update prevents a rollback. I now have to use my laser mouse as a basic mouse. I cannot re-install the original driver without it trying to use the update (although I suspect I could if I did another format and re-install). 6) Avast Home Edition has had some problems with an update (from 4.7 to 4.8) which they now appear to have corrected. 7) My advice: Do not allow Automatic Unattended Updates…..be selective about what you do allow. Thanks, Microsoft for wasting several days of my time. Thanks to you lot on the Forum for trying to help……See? I knew it wasn't me or my PCs. Thanks again. Jack All.

While it is easy to blame Microsoft, the fact that 100s of millions of users are doing fine suggests the problem is not MS. And certainly since SP3 is basically just a roll-up of all critical updates since SP2, most who have kept their systems updated see no impact. Considering Windows is expected to work fine with literally 1000s of different motherboards, CPUs, and videos cards from 1000s of different hardware makers, all configured in 100s of millions of combinations, and then allow each Windows user to customize the Windows installation to their unique preferences, I personally think that's a pretty good feat!

I am all for bashing MS when they deserve it, and that is way too often, but as it turns out, many of the SP3 problems encountered are not Microsoft's fault. HP/Compaq (the worlds biggest PC maker), for example, is guilty of using non-standard image files that causes many HP AMD machines to crash when SP3 is loaded. Not cool - and not Microsoft's fault.

The IT media is all too eager to jump on the MS bashing bandwagon. Note this headline from PCWorld: XP SP3 Bug Makes Some AMD PCs Crash. SP3 bug? Yet in the same article they show how the problem is not with SP3, but HP not conforming to standards! How is that an SP3 bug?

Understand that it is likely some people may see a performance hit when SP3 is first installed - we must remember that one of XP's features is dynamic tuning - its ability to adjust to the user's computing habits to auto-tweak itself for better performance. Installing SP3 may affect what has been learned, causing that learning process to fine tune again - give it a few days.

And certainly, in your case, Jackall, you said you reformatted and reinstalled so that will cause the dynamic tuning process to start for scratch.

maybe it is to get us to switch to Vista??

We must also remember that XP was designed 8 years ago to run on systems when 40Gb hard drives were monster drives and most computers only came with 128 - 256Mb of RAM. Vista is designed to take advantage of today's much advanced hardware technologies - meaning, if your computer is struggling to keep up with resource demands now, moving to Vista sure won't help improve performance. I recommend Vista ONLY be installed on newer systems with plenty of RAM, and CPU and graphics horsepower.

IE7 works OK without SP3, but I suspect it is at risk because of that.

Ummm, IE7 has been out for way over a year - SP3 was just released so is not a factor in the decision to go with IE7 or not. The facts are IE7 is where all XP users should be simply for the security benefits - even if you use an alternative browser.

My advice: Do not allow Automatic Unattended Updates…..be selective about what you do allow.

This is always good advice (except for anti-malware signature/definition files where delays in updating is too risky). I recommend Windows Update be set to download but do not install. Then I always wait a couple days and listen for fallout.

That said, again, there are 100s of millions of Windows users who have Windows Update set to the default with no problems.

****

In any case, I am glad you were able to resolve your issues and appreciate the update post.

Thanks Digerati…….. I appreciate your comments on my update……….but, the simple fact my PCs (one an AMD and one a Celeron) were both affected by similar problems. I forgot to mention, that the SP3 update was tried after a format and re-install of the OSs and the same problems returned……so I actually formatted two PCs twice. There is obviously something about my PCs that SP3 doesn't like or they don't like SP3. Still, they work now. Thanks again, Jack All.

were both affected by similar problems.

Which proves nothing. Windows is not the only common factor between them.

I forgot to mention, that the SP3 update was tried after a format and re-install of the OSs and the same problems returned……so I actually formatted two PCs twice.

And the problem with reformatting is it destroys or alters any evidence that may point to the problem. This could still be malware - either re-introduced by you or an infected PC on your network - or possibly a persistent rootkit, some of which are able to survive a format.

There is obviously something about my PCs that SP3 doesn't like or they don't like SP3.

Well, you had problems before SP3 - so can't blame that.

Still, they work now.

And in the end, that's the important part. Still, it would have been nice to learn exactly what the problems were.

"Well, you had problems before SP3 - so can't blame that."

If you go back to my original and subsequent posts in this thread, you may recall I thought the problems had occurred because of a Microsoft update………………

………..indeed, you even commented that far back on how it couldn't possibly be Microsoft………………………….

"Which proves nothing. Windows is not the only common factor between them."

It is when it's the only thing that SP3 when not installed, the problem doesn't exist………………Everything else that was used by either has been un-installed / shutdown in various combinations…..but as soon as Windows was updated (either SP3 or a Sec Update), Bosh.

You have also seen that my PCs were clean from the HJT and Kap scan logs…..the situation hasn't changed, they are still clean.

Close the post, I guess. QED, SNAFU.

Jack All