Two PCs, same problems.

Sorry if I have posted this in the wrong place, and sorry for the length of the explanation……believe me I wouldn't have posted at all if I could have worked out what has happened…..hopefully someone may have seen this sort of thing before, so I would be grateful for any help. Two PCs, one ‘big’, one ‘small’…….Both have recently developed the same problem. They start up fine and are both reasonably quick to function (although I have noticed a slightly longer start up on the ‘big’ one than it used to be. Windows, programs and folders open pretty quickly, plus the internet access is good as well. Gradually, over a period of say about four hours, the speed begins to decline, to the point where I am waiting for something to happen whether it’s a program or folder to open, or to access the internet. The most obvious effect is when closing or minimizing a page, folder or window, the Desktop Icons / Shortcuts disappear and then slowly regenerate. The ‘big’ one: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4600+. 500G Hard drive (2 x 250, partitioned into 7 drives). 4G DDR2 RAM (3+ only recognised by Windows) XP Pro SP2. Office 2003 Basic. SP3 IE 6 (in a vain hope it was IE7] The ‘small’ one: [Recently formatted and reloaded completely, but the problem returned] Celeron 2.3 Ghz. 250 + 40G Hard drives (not partitioned) 1G RAM XP Home Office 2003 Basic SP3 IE 7 Both have Avast Anti Virus Home running, plus Prevx 2 installed and running. Defender is installed but is partially disabled (only really used for info or to easily stop something from running). I have maintained them as clean as I can (as far as I can, anyway) by regularly running CCleaner and ATF Cleaner. There are 6 start up processes on the big one and four on the small one (different Graphics card). Task Manager does not show anything much happening. The big one when idle is running 0 – 1% CPU usage. The small one 2-4% CPU usage. Explorer.exe and svchost.exe appear to be the only ones that ‘kick off’ occasionally. I have run HiJackThis a couple of times, but even with my limited knowledge, it seems there isn’t much there to worry about (but I could be wrong, I guess). The two PCs are on a LAN via a Netgear Router (wired) and apart from Printer Sharing, there a re two mapped drives on the big PC to the small one. Bearing in mind they were alright up until about a month ago, can anyone give me a clue as to what to do, please? Thanks Jack All.

Gradually, over a period of say about four hours, the speed begins to decline, to the point where I am waiting for something to happen whether it’s a program or folder to open, or to access the internet.

And then what? What corrects it? Do you have to reboot? What is your CPU utilization when it slows? If one machine is rebooted, do both get better? Try telling your firewall to block all network traffic and see if it settles down.

If nothing is revealed by all that, then I would have the experts look at your HJT log - See the WhattheTech HijackThis Log Procedures for complete instructions for running HijackThis and posting your log.

If I reboot either of them, a small improvement is seen in the rebooted pc only. The best 'cure' is to shut both down and leave for a period of time (but I can't see any evidence of overheating in either of them…..there is no change in the temperatures of the CPU or graphics card etc). The slowing up may occur anything between one and fours hours it seems, but there is no exceptional activity taking place in Task Manager……the CPU %s generally remain the same as mentioned earlier. The only 'Exceptions' allowed on the firewall was File and Printer Sharing, but even with this 'off', the issues remain. I shall take your advice and post the HiJack logs. However, I get the impression that it is something downloaded from Microsoft when Windows updated…..or maybe the AV program. Thanks, Jack All

However, I get the impression that it is something downloaded from Microsoft when Windows updated

It is always easy to blame Microsoft, but if a problem with an update, millions would be complaining.

I think at this point, all is on hold until the logs are analyzed. After that, if still unresolved, pick one computer and work on it - not both at the same time in the same thread. Also, you need to get your "big" computer updated - running with IE6 puts you behind in terms of security, and a greater target for badguys - making that machine a potential threat to the rest of us.

So once the logs are done, come back and let us know what's happening.

Logs were posted much earlier today.


If you look at my first post again, you will see that I am only running IE6 on the big one because I thought IE7 might have been the problem……..I'm not sure if it is or isn't, however I rarely use the big one to access the Internet, but I'm having to now because the small one is too slow.

…….however, until IE7 came along, I have run IE6 for a few years now and to my knowledge nothing ever 'interfered' with it…..and the only time anything got by my AV, I was using Norton or McAfee.

FYI every time I leave the Internet and close IE, I run CCleaner, ATF Cleaner and clear out IE (whether 6 or 7). History is stored for 0 days.

I am still fairly confident that the problem has to do with updating of Windows, Office or the AV program, simply because it affected both within a short space of time.

Apparently SP2 is OK when on a disc, but full of problems when downloading. This might explain why the small PC is worse than the big one, as my OEM disc is not SP2.

Let's see what the logs tell us.

Thanks for the advice.

Jack All.

however, until IE7 came along, I have run IE6 for a few years now and to my knowledge nothing ever 'interfered' with it…..and

I understand, but comparing today's threats with yesterday's threats is not a valid arguement. That said, you seem aware of the issues - and that's good because that by itself is critical to safe computing. That said, many malicious code is excellent at not interferring with your computer, but simply sit and gather your personal information and/or wait dormant, until signaled to deliver its payload.

I am still fairly confident that the problem has to do with updating of Windows, Office or the AV program, simply because it affected both within a short space of time.

Short space of time? If within the same update cycle then maybe, but still the odds an update will affect two dissimilar computers they same way, without causing world-wide issues for millions other computer users is very remote - unless you have a very unique (from the world) setup that is shared by your two computers. I agree to wait until the logs are done - so you don't change any of the parameters, but when done, I would isolate one computer from the other, disconnect any shared, external, or networked devices, and see what happens.

Apparently SP2 is OK when on a disc, but full of problems when downloading. This might explain why the small PC is worse than the big one, as my OEM disc is not SP2.

Nope. That's no so. Whether you order the CD or download the install file, the file is the same. Now if you meant upgrading to SP2 through Windows Update, there have been problems there, but mostly that is due to such long connectivity times. I don't recommend upgrading to SP2 via WU, but rather for the cost of shipping and handling (about $3.50 in the US), you can order Windows XP SP2 on CD or download the Windows XP SP2 Network Installation Package for free.

Are these systems clean of heat trapping dust and dirt? Do all fans spin freely? Do you have good front to back air flow?

I don't think you should treat these two computers as having the same fault. The same symptoms fit 100s of cases - these two computers are too different. Different CPUs brands, chipsets, RAM, they even have different operating systems and graphics cards.

Malicious code should be picked up by Prevx2, if the nasty decides to fire up.

Regarding the update issue: Both automatically update within about 48 hours for the antivurus and malware progs (including Defender).
Likewise for Windows updates and fixes, within about 48 hours: Includes Java (which has caused some trouble in the past) Net Framework 2 SP1, Net Framework 3 and all the associated bits fixes with those ones……I've never worked out if I actually need these or not!

SP2 on the small one was done by Windows Update…..but I do have decent download speed.

The big PC is in a Silverstone Temjin case (big enough to keep rabbits in, if they can't bury me in it) 5 fans in total all the vanes kept fully clean with Isopropanol alcohol and never just blown out with compressed air…..and I monitor the temps with Everest, very stable ever under heavy graphics.

The small pc is a minute article with tiny fans, but even so they are clean (and it appears to be able ….or used to be able…..to handle the graphics, but not as fast). It also has a system managed page file, rather than a dedicated drive like on the big one.

FYI…Even if I separate the PCs and disconnect the LAN etc, and have only one switched on, the same problem exists……Slow to open up IE6 or 7, slow to open folders / windows, slow to open programs but not so bad when actually using a program.
Closing the windows or the progs leaves the desktop icons gradually clicking back 'on', almost one at a time.

The logs should be interesting……I have spotted a couple of things there that I want 'gone' anyway.

Thanks Digerati.

Malicious code should be picked up by Prevx2, if the nasty decides to fire up.

"Should" being the operative word.

Thats why I underlined 'should be' !

Yup!

Digerati………….something else I spotted that might give a clue. On both PCs (whether LAN or separate) when the problem is bad (but Task Manager shows little CPU usage) if I want to download a file for whatever, and save to the desktop (where I scan them) rather than running it directly (for security primarily), you will be aware that the Save option is generally by default to My Documents, yes? So OK, I want it to go to the Desktop, so I hit My Documents at the top of the dialogue box or whatever we call it, to change it to Desktop…..it used to be immediate, but it now just sits and hangs for 30 seconds to a minute. When it finally changes to Desktop, it will save immediately. It is this sort of incident that is what I include in the 'slow' operation. Likewise when using IEx or WEx, negotiating backwards and forwards between pages or folders, it can similarly hang. I did wonder if too many Desktop shortcuts can cause this, or if too many downloaded items (say HJT installer for example) limit the amount of HD or RAM available for the Desktop? I normally move all installers and similar items to a Set Up Files folder on C:, but I am prone to forgetting to move them. Thanks, Jack All.

if I want to download a file for whatever, and save to the desktop (where I scan them) rather than running it directly (for security primarily

Wise plan.

I did wonder if too many Desktop shortcuts can cause this, or if too many downloaded items (say HJT installer for example) limit the amount of HD or RAM available for the Desktop?

Desktop shortcuts do use RAM and therefore may affect performance, but your desktop would have to be full of them. Downloaded items, once downloaded, just sit on your hard drive and do not affect performance, unless you are low on disk space, and your Page File is restricted.

Again - DO NOT change anything until your logs have been analyzed - we don't want to skew the results.

PC1 - You said has 2 x 250 HDs, partitioned into 7 drives - How much free disk space in on the boot drive/partition? Where is the PF and how is it configured?

Sorry for late response Digerati……..been dealing with urgent family trouble. PC1. C: for Programs, Boot etc, is 49G with 36G Free space. D: for Data, Docs and files etc. is 88G with 67G Free. E: Page File is 10G with 7G Free (can never figure out what uses 3G!!) I defrag it at boot. The other drives are for spare, backup and scratch. All NTFS….. Anything wrong there? Regards Jack All.

That should be plenty. You defrag what at boot?

I defrag the page file at boot (about once every two weeks, sometimes more, sometimes less) using Mark Russinovich's pagedfrg.exe because page files can't be defragged using Windows Defrag. Bear in mind this PC was blindingly fast for two years, until the 'slow' issues started…….Maybe it just wants a good clean out, format and reload?? Jack All.