63 replies to this topic

[Sshadow]

I am currently using a Cooler Master Aquagate S1. It just doesn't seem to cut it. When i am gaming and the CPU's are at full load they still run about 180f/82c - 200f/93c so I was considering an upgrade. Anyone have any suggestions? Should I stick with liquid cooling? Any input is appreciated

[DaChew]

somethings wrong, my single core OC'd up to 2.5Ghz from 1.8(45%) never got above 55F running at 100% for over an hour and I was on a silentboost TT air your waterblock is on good with artic silver? radiator getting plenty of cool fresh air?(test)

[Sshadow]

somethings wrong, my single core OC'd up to 2.5Ghz from 1.8(45%) never got above 55F running at 100% for over an hour and I was on a silentboost TT air

your waterblock is on good with artic silver?

radiator getting plenty of cool fresh air?(test)

When I first got the system the water cooling was faulty and the CPU would get so hot the machine would shut down. So I RMA'ed the piece and got a new one and that fixed that problem. Yes I tightened the waterblock right to the point the bolts can't be turned with your finger but didn't want to tighten more(is that tight enough?). I used Ceramique by Arctic Silver as the thermal paste. I used just enough where you can kinda see it around the edges of the block but that it isn't running over or anything like that.

Besides looking at the radiator to make sure its dust free how can I tell?

Edited by Sshadow, 24 March 2008 - 12:56 PM.

[DaChew]

point a small room fan at the radiator, you may just be recycling hot room air

[Abydos]

Thats alot of heat ! I run a Intel Duo Core 2.33mhz and "only" have Arctic Cooling Alpine 7 / NQ 3850A 60mm VGA Cooler Copper, plus a single cabinet fan (120mm) and never have i reached the heat spikes you describe, and i play games sometimes for 3-4 hours at a stretch with max. cpu. You sure youre cabinet can vent the heat?? (Dunno much about water-cooling, so if its a dump question, please disregard )

[Sshadow]

Ok I will try that DaChew. Let me also describe the fan configuration. The radiator fan is blowing out thru the radiator. I have a fan mounted on the side of the case blowing in(2k RPMs) and a fan mounted on top blowing out(2k RPMs).

[DaChew]

I think I know what the problem is, you have created negative air pressure inside the case, assuming the rad blockfan is exhausting just under the power supply? that's 3 fans out? ideally you should be blowing cool air in from the front down low and from that side vent(designed for air cooling?) Are you sure there's no air bubbles in the cooling system? the dual vid cards are preheating the air needed to cool the cpu I hope this isn't all stuck under a desk in a dead air space? thermodynamics is a challenging problem

[Digerati]

I am having a hard time accepting those temps as valid - even with air cooling, your CPU should not be able to get that hot! As shown here, your CPU has maximum operating temperature of 68°C! It should be shutting down before it gets near 80°C.

What are you using to measure your temps? I have found that CoreTemp for newer Intel and AMD64 CPUs works well. DaChew has a good point - you need good front to back air flow. What are your other temps?

Also, your description of how you applied your TIM concerns me. Note the most efficient heat transfer between a CPU and heatsink (or water block in your case) occurs where there is direct contact between the mating surfaces. However, unless the CPU die and heatsink mating surfaces have been professionally lapped, there will be imperfections in the mating surfaces - microscopic pits and valleys that trap air - a great "insulator" - not what you want when you are looking for heat conduction.

So the purpose of TIM (thermal interface material) is to fill in all, and only those microscopic pits and valleys. Any excess is in the way! And actually hinders heat transfer. Not good. The idea is to apply as thin a layer as possible, while ensuring full coverage. Below in yet another one of my canned texts, this on TIM, I describe my method of applying paste - if you feel you might have applied too thick a layer, you might pull your block, clean the surfaces up good, and give it another try - or at that point, try air again.

A warning - personal observation - about water cooling. I generally am opposed to it (as a technician, there's something about water and electricy) - but beyond that, motherboard engineers intentionally design motherboards so other heat sensitive and heat generating devices, such as chipsets and the motherboard's all important voltage regulator circuits, and even RAM, are surrounding the CPU socket. Why? So they can take advantage of the heat removing air flow from the CPU's cooling fan! With water cooling, too often the essential air flow the other heat sensitive devices need is overlooked, or neglicted.

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Canned Text for TIM:

An often misunderstood and sometimes overlooked critical hardware component is thermal interface material or TIM. TIM is typically seen as a thermal pad on a CPU heatsink fan (HSF), or in paste form. It may also be called thermal grease, silicon grease, heat transfer compound, thermal paste, heat sink compound, goop, and probably more.

The 4 Most Common HSF Mounting Mistakes:

• Failure to use TIM
• Used too much TIM
• Reused old TIM
• Did not clean mating surfaces thoroughly before applying TIM

The purpose of TIM is to ensure all the microscopic pits and valleys in the CPU die and heatsink mating surfaces are void of heat trapping air, maximizing surface to surface contact. Any excess is too much and gets in the way, and can actually be counterproductive to the heat transfer process.

Materials Needed: One clean plastic shaft Q-Tip (cotton swab), acetone or 91% isopropyl alcohol (note - most rubbing alcohol is 70% and leaves a film, 91% alcohol can be found at your local drug store), clean scissors, can of compressed air, and the TIM. I recommend one of the new generations of non-metallic TIMs such as Tuniq TX-2 or AC MX-2, or the venerable silver based TIM, Arctic Silver 5.

WARNING: Keep yourself grounded with the case to ensure there is no static buildup and discharge that might destroy any electrostatic discharge (ESD) sensitive devices. It is important to realize that the "threshold for human awareness" for a static shock is higher than the tolerance of ESD sensitive devices. In other words, you can shock and destroy a CPU, RAM module, or other sensitive device without even knowing there was a static discharge! Use an anti-static wrist-strap or frequently touch bare metal on the case to maintain your body at the same potential as chassis (case) ground.

Preparation: Power off and unplug the computer from the wall. Cut off one cotton swap near the end. Bend the plastic shaft about 1/2 inch from the cut end to make a nice little hockey stick. This is the working end of your TIM application device. Clean the die and heat sink mating surfaces with a soft, lint free cloth dampened (not dripping wet) with acetone or 91% alcohol. Do not let any fluids run down the sides of the CPU die. Clean skin oils from the working end of your applicator with the alcohol dampened cloth. Blast the surfaces with a quick blast of compressed air to ensure the surfaces are dry and no lint or dust remains behind. Do NOT touch the CPU die or heatsink mating surfaces, or the applicator's working end from this point on.

Application: Apply one "drop" of paste on the corner of the die and spread it out across the die with the applicator, like spreading icing on a cake. Spread the paste as thin as possible while ensuring complete coverage. It is easier to add more than remove excess. Remember, too much is counterproductive.

Note: Depending on the type of TIM used, some, such as the silver based compounds, can take 2 - 5 days or longer (depending on the power/heat up-cool down cycles) for the TIM to cure and reach optimum effectiveness. A 2 – 4°C drop in average temperatures may be realized after curing.

Note: A new HSF may come with a thermal interface pad already applied. Those pads consist of mostly paraffin, which is supposed to melt and squirm out of the way when the CPU heats up for the first time. Thermal pads are certainly better than no TIM at all, but they are not as effective as silver or ceramic based compounds. Do not use a sharp or metal object to remove the pad. A fingernail will work fine, removing any residue with acetone or alcohol.

Note: Do not reuse a thermal pad or paste. Always remove the old, cured TIM, clean the mating surfaces thoroughly, and apply a fresh application of new TIM.

Note: Thermal adhesive is a specific type of TIM used to permanently or semi-permanently glue heatsinks to devices that have no other heatsink mounting mechanism. Thermal adhesive is NOT intended to be used between a CPU and the CPU heatsink.

See TweakTown TIM Review for some additional information.

[Sshadow]

Ok now I am confused. I am getting different readings with 2 different programs. CoreTemp shows - Core 0 @ ~11c Core 1 @ ~2c PC Probe 2(an Asus program) shows - Core 0 @ ~30c Core 1 @ ~28c

[Digerati]

Check your ASUS utilities disk. It will contain a PC health utility, ASUS calls theirs, PC Probe. It should be right.

I have had good luck too with Everest to verify temperatures. Look under Computer > Sensor, then wait a couple seconds for the readings to appear. Unfortunately, Everest does not minimize to the system tray to show real-time temperatures full time. I often use Everest to verify Speedfan, CoreTemp (and Motherboard Monitor another popular program) have correctly matched a sensor to a label - something they are good at messing up.

[Sshadow]

Check your ASUS utilities disk. It will contain a PC health utility, ASUS calls theirs, PC Probe. It should be right.

I have had good luck too with Everest to verify temperatures. Look under Computer > Sensor, then wait a couple seconds for the readings to appear. Unfortunately, Everest does not minimize to the system tray to show real-time temperatures full time. I often use Everest to verify Speedfan, CoreTemp (and Motherboard Monitor another popular program) have correctly matched a sensor to a label - something they are good at messing up.

Wow that Everest program did not like my system. As soon as I ran it my sensors went haywire and set off every alarm I have set on PC Probe then my PC promptly shut down. Btw you mentioned above for me to look for PC Probe on my utilities disk but I mentioned in my last post I already have it installed.

Edited by Sshadow, 24 March 2008 - 06:37 PM.

[DaChew]

I wouldn't try these programs under vista at all

[Sshadow]

XP Pro is the OS I use primarily anyway.

[DaChew]

Have you tried the trial of 4.5, I was very impressed with the new version It would probably work with vista 64 bit since the free version quit in 2005, it's really not good with newer computers coretemp should be fine, makes me wonder if you have any low level driver conflicts? or a early release bios?

Edited by DaChew, 24 March 2008 - 08:18 PM.

[Digerati]

Sorry about PC Probe - I saw that but missed it anyway - and Everest? Never heard of it doing that before - that was odd. I am at a loss. You might try the ASUS website for updated Probe, or to see if a driver update for the board addresses this.