7 replies to this topic

[dzstar]

how can I verify or disprove if Bitdefender has a keylogger? I'm having issues with getting answers from support and came across mention that BD had a keylogger...

Thanks!!!

D

[Digerati]

Where did you hear BD had a keylogger? Got a link?

 

I am sure it doesn't or it would be widely publicized. Scan your computer with another scanner like Windows Defender and Malwarebytes. If still worried, uninstall it and switch to another scanner. I use Windows Defender and Malwarebytes on all my systems without problems or infections.

 

You might just uninstall Bitdefender anyway, then download a new copy from their official download page, and install anew.

 

I am sure their tech support couldn't help. They probably thought you were joking or just trolling them.

[dzstar]

Where did you hear BD had a keylogger? Got a link?

 

I am sure it doesn't or it would be widely publicized. Scan your computer with another scanner like Windows Defender and Malwarebytes. If still worried, uninstall it and switch to another scanner. I use Windows Defender and Malwarebytes on all my systems without problems or infections.

 

You might just uninstall Bitdefender anyway, then download a new copy from their official download page, and install anew.

 

I am sure their tech support couldn't help. They probably thought you were joking or just trolling them.

I have been having problems since feb 2019 with BD of several kinds. They are great at NOT answering ?'s, just giving assurances they are working on it. The latest round of snafu's were caused by them mixing and matching ticket #'s, not recognizing screenshots, etc. In my search for answers, Reddit BD sub reddit  a  keylogger was accused but no other details which is why I'm seeking info.I did not address this issue w/ BD considering I havent any proof..just rumor & innuendo,  FYI, cannot use another AV when BD installed. The uninstall procedure is a MAJOR headache and lastly, I dont trust msft to secure an OS they cannot get to work properly to begin with. Defender is Fox in the henhouse scenerio.Anyway, thanks for the response!

D

[Digerati]

You should be able to get another scanner to work with BD installed. This is especially true of the free version of Malwarebytes. It does not matter what your primary scanner of choice is - everyone should have a secondary scanner just to verify the primary didn't let something slip by. If your primary doesn't allow that, I say get rid of your primary.

 

You are completely wrong about Microsoft Defender (previously called Windows Defender)- both in it capabilities and in your fox in the hen-house analogy.

 

Is it the absolute best out there? No. But it does not need to be. I like to say we don't need to drive around in an Abrams Tank to be safe. But we do need to use a fairly modern car, keep it fully updated and we need to drive defensively, the same things regardless which car (or security program) we use.

 

And the fox analogy is, frankly, nonsense. It sounds like you've been listening to Microsoft haters. Why would Microsoft want Windows to get infected? Why wouldn't they know how to protect it?

 

Consider this - what financial incentive do BitDefender, Norton, AVAST, McAfee and all those 3rd party security programs have to rid the world of malware? The answer is none. If malware goes away, they all go out of business.

 

What incentive does Microsoft have? Lots with one being they stop getting blamed for the actions of the bad guys and the failures of BD, Norton, Avira and the others.

 

Microsoft does not want your Windows to get infected because they don't want you and the Microsoft bashers to blame them.

 

So contrary to what many MS haters want us to believe, Microsoft Defender is a very capable anti-malware solution AS LONG AS you keep it updated, you keep Windows updated, and you avoid being "click-happy" on unsolicited downloads, links, attachments and popups - the same things we all must do regardless our scanner of choice.

 

I find it odd you write off Microsoft and say you don't trust them yet complain that BD has not worked properly for nearly a year and that you are worried it has a keylogger in it, and that it is a "MAJOR" headache to uninstall. IMO, those are all reasons to get rid of it! 

 

And for the record, W10 with Microsoft Defender works great for 100s of millions of users. If Microsoft Defender was not capable of protecting Windows, it would be major headlines and all over the news, but it is not.

 

While I really like Microsoft Defender I really don't care which you use - just use a good one, keep it current and don't be click-happy. But don't dismiss Microsoft Defender because you don't think it capable or don't trust Microsoft. Those are totally invalid reasons.

[dzstar]

Freedom is NOT free!!

USAF(71-75)

 

Seems I hit a nerve. Sorry. Windows has paid my rent many a month because the OS has never been particularly user friendly, nor put together in a responsible way. That being said, I posted a question here simply to find out if anyone had heard of this possibility and IF so was there a way to prove it. Again, rumor and inuendo is my source and i dont put any stock in it.I've used most of the AV's you mentioned at least once, free AND paid. They all have issues. I read alot of reviews over the years and BD has been one that got a good review time after time. Defender has gotten a following since win 10 release, why I do not know. I simply do not trust msft. Simple as that. BTW, I dont exactly 'trust' BD either but at this point I'm playing on their dime and they have actually protected me from some bad folks. So while I deal with the 1st line of customer support, I'll continue to research the web and learn along the way. Have YOU ever used BD paid btw? Just curious as you seem to have some bad feelings for them I'm trying to say thank you for your reply now for the second time. The advive is welcome and I think it over. But I been dealing w/ msft since dos 3 and have some experience to fall back on.I am NOT an IT pro but like a vast number of users, self taught and on it goes. I hope windows continues to appreciate your support and doesn't let you down.

Be well and be at peace,

Its a a great life!

[Digerati]

No, not a nerve - not in the sense I took it personal. I didn't. Sorry if it appeared that way. And you are quite welcome. Sorry again for not expressing that either.

 

It is just there is a lot of misinformation (some intentional) out there about Windows, Microsoft, Windows (Microsoft) Defender and other things and I do get frustrated over that. Same as I do about OEM heatsink fan assemblies, Intel vs AMD, and other things.

 

You say the OS has never been particularly friendly, many MANY would totally disagree. In fact, that's why Windows 8 failed so miserably because it was so different from W7. W10 brings that user friendliness back - more or less. Many would argue that Macs are unfriendly. Certainly their pattern of using proprietary parts and protocols is unfriendly - and more expensive for consumers.
 

 

Have YOU ever used BD paid btw?

 

 

Not on any of my personal machines but I have worked on client machines that used it. I found it to be like just about all other paid anti-malware solutions like Norton, McAfee, and the others - effective but bloated with all sorts of extras users just don't need.

 

So I don't have a problem with BD, I have a problem with all of these programs that not only want us to pay up front, but then pay year after year - often using intimidation and scare marketing tactics to get users to use their products instead of capable free products like Defender. BD paid and the others are not necessary when there are several free programs that effectively protect us too. If Defender wasn't already in Windows, I probably would be using AVAST. I used use AVG, but they got too aggressive in promoting their paid version.

 

Defender has gotten a following since win 10 release, why I do not know.

 

The reason why is simple. Microsoft has not been sitting on their thumbs since Microsoft Security Essentials (the precursor to Defender) came out for Windows 7. In fact, MS has dedicated a tremendous amount of time, and money, not just into Defender, but into total security across all their products (including Windows) and the Internet in general. In fact, this is one reason why Defender is free, and also why MS shares all of its security/malware analysis data with all the other security companies. Again, why? Because folks will blame Microsoft anyway. So if other products keep Windows clean too, that is still good for Microsoft.

Again, rumor and inuendo is my source and i dont put any stock in it.

 

 

Oh? But not only did you inquire with BD, you went to Reddit and came here too - this after apparently seeing just one or two reports of the keylogger?

 

No antimalware solution is perfect. As you noted, they all have issues, including BD. So it often does boil down to which one you simply like or are used to. But brand loyalty should NOT be given much weight. None have remained on top consistently. And again, we don't need the best. That's just marketing hype - something else we must not fall for. Remember too, Microsoft is not trying to get us to buy a Premium/pro version.

 

I hope windows continues to appreciate your support and doesn't let you down.

 

LOL Well with over 30 million lines of code - no doubts it will let me down at some point - again! But I will add this, contrary to what many seem to think, the developers at Microsoft are among the best in world - bar none. Sadly, I cannot say the same for Microsoft marketing weenies and many of the executive decisions made at Microsoft.

 

I am not totally happy about some of the privacy policies but to that I will say two things. (1) Privacy and security are two totally different things and folks need to understand and appreciate the difference. And (2), if folks are concerned about privacy, they need to be MUCH MORE concerned about Google and Facebook. And even more concerned about their ISPs as their ISPs also know their physical address, real names, billing information and other personally identifiable information.

 

But our ISPs are not even the biggest threats. Our cell phone carriers are MUCH MUCH WORSE, as they not only know our real names and billing information, they know who we have talked to and texted, where we have surfed AND they know where we have been, where we are standing to within a few feet (including the aisle of the store we are in!) and they know the direction we are heading and how fast we are traveling. That scares me!

 

Microsoft does NOT know our real name and is not trying to get it. It does not know our contacts or billing information and is not trying to get our passwords or account numbers. And the closest Microsoft knows of our physical location, at least with our Ethernet connected PCs is our POP (point of presence) - the physical location where our ISP connects us to the Internet backbone. In my case, that is 10 miles away in the next town over!

 

So when it comes to our privacy, Microsoft is really one of the least of our concerns. Yet you should would not know that if you listened to the MS bashers.

 

So that my problem - MIS-information.

[dzstar]

Dinner about ready so this will be quick...

Glad you weren't offended!

 

Quote

Again, rumor and inuendo is my source and i dont put any stock in it.

 

 

Oh? But not only did you inquire with BD, you went to Reddit and came here too - this after apparently seeing just one or two reports of the keylogger?

 

When I wrote about rumor etc, I said it's my only source(should have said i only read ONE source ) I thought saying is my only source would imply that. I never write BD about this, was on reddit looking for info totally unrelated and stumbled over that rumor. This site and you is the only place I've exchanged any discussion about it. I spen a lot of time going from site to site to glean as much info as I can about MANY subjects...windows wont go to sleep and stay there..heard about that? its been around awhile and it has been a bear(still is) but I guess I led you to believe I spent alot of time spreading? or asking all over. Nope just here with you today.

I use Askwoody.com alot and bleeping computer, not to mention 7forum and ten forum( I totally skipped win8 and win8.1)

So hopefully we shall all be able to share info and be civil...politics has almost destroyed our society and would not like it to infect everything in life!! like hobbies?

Well, gotta go,

Be well seeya!

Don

[Digerati]

...windows wont go to sleep and stay there..heard about that?

 

Sure - that is a common "symptom" that is often associated to many causes not related to Windows itself. It typically is a running program or service, network event, or a piece of hardware that keeps Windows awake or wakes Windows. And it can be hard to narrow down. Sleep issued have plagued users and frustrated techs since DOS days, and are not limited to Microsoft operating systems either.

 

But again, it is typically caused by something else. In one very difficult to troubleshoot case was a client whose computer kept waking unexpectedly, but only when she was away from her desk. It would happen 2 or 3 times a day - but no one actually saw it wake up. She would come back to her desk and it would be waiting for her password.

 

At first, I thought it was caused by heavy footfalls from someone walking by as I have seen that before. And a common solution there is to get into the habit of flipping the mouse on its back before walking away. But heavy footfalls were eliminated.

 

Finally, a coworker noticed out the window one of those monster double trailer gravel trucks rumble by. She felt it in the floor and at the same time saw the computer wake up. Apparently the mouse was very sensitive and felt the vibrations too, enough to signal the computer to wake. When the client was sitting in her chair at her desk, her weight (and she was not a big person) on the floor was just enough to prevent the vibration from shaking the desk enough to wake the computer.

 

At first, no one could believe it was the trucks because it only happened when the trucks were heading north. Then someone realized those trucks were sitting low, full of gravel and the trucks heading south were sitting high, apparently empty.

 

She didn't want to trade for a different mouse so we just disabled the Wake on Mouse settings - which was fine as she was used to pressing the keyboard space bar.

 

but I guess I led you to believe I spent alot of time spreading?

 

No you didn't. When I said there is a lot of misinformation being spread, I meant there are a lot of biased and/or misinformed people spreading a lot of falsehoods. Not that you were running all over the internet doing it.

 

To be sure, folks are entitled to their own opinions and I will defend their right to express them - in the proper time and place. And in a technical forums where people come to learn the "facts", opinions are not always appropriate. People are entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

 

You certainly have the right to distrust Microsoft. I agree 100% they have done a lot in the past to earn that distrust - from me too. But in recent years they really have spent a lot of resources developing Windows, especially Windows 10 and Microsoft security solutions and even policies to earn that trust back. They really are tired of being blamed for the security mess we are in when it clearly was the fault of the bad guys who put us here, and the failure of Norton, McAfee, CA, TrendMicro and the other security providers who failed to stop them.

 

It is important to remember the reason Microsoft did not include anti-virus code in XP was because Norton, McAfee, and the others whined and cried to Congress and the EU claiming Microsoft was trying to rule and monopolize the world. They were, but not the point.

The anti-malware industry claimed it was their job to thwart malware. So Congress and the EU threatened to breakup Microsoft Ma Bell style if they included anti-malware code in XP. So MS left it out.

But Norton, McAfee and the others failed miserably! Remember, they had (and have) no financial incentive to defeat the bad guys. If they succeeded, they would go out of business.

But who got blamed for their failure? Microsoft - even though it was the badguys who perpetrated the offenses and the anti-malware industry who failed to stop, or even hinder their proliferation.

Notice how now Congress, the EU and Norton have kept their mouths shut about Microsoft integrating anti-malware in W8 and W10? It is because they know they were wrong. Had MS been allowed to include anti-virus code in XP, it could have at least hindered the untethered advances of the bad guys.

Even most of the biased IT media and MS bashers have, for the most part, kept quiet about MS including anti-malware code. I say, "for the most part" because they sure are vocal when it comes to declaring Windows Defender in W10 is not an absolute 100% perfect anti-malware solution, or the absolute best solution out there. Oh well, haters will hate and the competition will try to compete.

So ONLY Microsoft has the financial incentive to rid the world of cyber-badguys and malware! Norton, Avast, McAfee, BitDefender, Kaspersky, and all the others need malware and the bad guys to succeed, or they all go out of business! That's another reason why I am a fan of Windows own Microsoft Defender (besides the fact it works). I am NOT saying all those companies have ulterior motives (though some might - see below). I believe most are sincere in their efforts. But the fact remains, if they succeed in ridding the world of malware, they will all be out of jobs.

You talk about trusting Microsoft, can we really trust 3rd party security and privacy apps to have our best interests at heart? I mean look at Kaspersky! Or Lenovo which I realize is primarily a hardware manufacturer, or Huawei a hardware and telecommunications company. Can the Free World trust companies backed by Russia and China? Can we really trust a security program developed in country where corruption is so widespread? BitDefender is from Romania.

 

Well, didn't mean to go off on a rant. Sorry about that.

 

***

Oh, and thanks for your service. I first came in in 1971, but stayed for 24 years, 24 days, 15 hours and 55 minutes (approximately) - but who's counting?

Edited by Digerati, 28 December 2019 - 12:10 PM.