6 replies to this topic

[Jimbo1]

Hiya folks, I been sitting here doing some reading and decided to come here. The question I need to ask, I want to buy a new system and I am looking at a win 7 machine, 4 gigs of ram 1 TB. But for the os I want to stay with 32 bit, reason for this after looking and checking many of my software I use for church is only 32 biut, tested on a 64 bit system and will not run. Do not like the idea of doing a little dance to get this and that done to have all my 32 bit stuff to run, yes I would love to go with a 64 machine but, I have to stick with 32. I am looking at getting a I3 or I5, 4 gigs of ram, 1tb hd, win7 prem 32bit... So if i went byond 4 gigs of ram is it a waste to do so or will I see some great performance of going higher than 4 or not. or do you think this machine as is 32 bit, memory, will be great, on top of it I do songs, lots of power point stuff, graphic design so I Really need to know what you think, consider i have a current dual core 2 gig of ram machine now with xp. Reason for upgading the web site I have and others I am working on are now hollring for IE 9 and using xp well lets say it's old. I just tying to understand memory of greater than 4 gigs in a 32 bit os system, more is usless or the cut off is 3 to 4?? Thanks Jimbo1

[paws]

Hi Jimmy,
Nice to hear from your again.
I'm sure that many of the experts here will offer a more comprehensive answer, but in the meantime, here's my take on this...

1 When purchasing a new computer 64 bit is really the way to go... its more up to date, has improved security and can address more RAM

2 It will not be too easy to find a suitable computer nowadays being offered with 32 bit Win 7... they mostly come with 64 bit

3 if you are set on 32 bit on a Win7 machine you may end up having to buy a 32 bit version of Win 7 and then format the hard drive (as it will almost certainly have Win7 64 bit OS preinstalled) and then install your 32bit version.... ( take a disc image first if you do this)

4 If however you adopt 3 above and also want to try for a refund from Microsoft for the preinstalled win7 64 bit then you must not accept the initial licence agreement when you first turn it on....!! (and you must not try and make a disc image,,,,,,You will then have a relatively long and fairly involved procedure to follow (and you must comply precisely with the requirements before your refund will come through.....when it does come through its only likely to be for a small amount..perhaps $25 (USD) or so.

5 Some firms will nowadays supply a new computer system without an operating system and this is worth considering if you are convinced that you must retain 32 bit...it will limit your choice of supplier and system somewhat,but then you can just install Win 7 32bit...as long as you can find a copy in your locality or via mail etc. (do check that its licence is 100% legit', before doing this.

6 If you really can't get your software to work on Win7 64 bit and you cant upgrade the software that you use then there are alternatives.....

7 You could keep your old Win XP machine primarily for running the "church" software and this should continue to provide good service up to Spring 2014 (when Microsoft will stop providing update patches to address security issues etc.......) you can still use the machine of course after that date but it would not be advisable to have it connected to the Internet any time after wards.... so if your software does not need net access this would be a reasonable way forward....you can then buy a super dooper Win 7 64 bit with all the advantages....

8 I'll not mention Win 8 at this stage its not out yet for general sale but will be towards the end of this month..... but this is a route you could consider if you are OK with 64 bit?

9 Some folks might suggest running Win XP on a Virtual Machine via a standard Win7 64 bit computerand this may be an answer for the particular problem..... Why not try it, if you have a Win 7 64 bit machine available to experiment with?

10 Just some words on RAM, and the ability of 32 bit machines versus 64 bit in so far as memory handling is concerned..... It is said generally that 32 bit machines are limited to using 4GB (nominal) in practice possibly around 3.5 Gb actual, whereas 64 bit machines can go much higher.... Win XP as a rule works well with 2GB of RAM and the benefits of maxing out to higher amounts (for most normal non specialist applications) are likely to be fairly minimal and often not very noticable....

On a Win 7 64 bit machine, although more can usually be handled, 4GB of RAM is often offered, by most retailers and there is no doubt that more RAM is better for specialist applications that require it.....Often high powered image or video editing or in my case forensic investigations into computer use/misuse can demand very large amounts of RAM for optimum performance... however for ordinary folks using email, Internet, writing letters, simple spreadsheets and data bases and sending photos of their grandchildren or Skping them...etc 4GB will do just fine......

paws will now don tin helmet and await the Flak that will surely follow!
All the best
Regards
paws

Edited by paws, 10 October 2012 - 02:41 AM.
typo

[Jimbo1]

If you really can't get your software to work on Win7 64 bit and you cant upgrade the software that you use then there are alternatives.....

This machine with all the years of software which I have all my backups, and all my install Cd, their is no upgrades for them to work on a 64 machine, this is why I am face with this problem.

Now as to having a win7 32 bit os prem, I have my Cd I bought when I was going to try upgrading this machine, but ran into road blocks with my video card on this system and kept the DVD.

I have looked at rigs out their Dell mostly can I can get it custom built to what I want, Yes of all the machine I worked on here in my shop with 64 does as we say in this parts flies.

But here is the kicker, being a preacher I not loaded with this kind of money to spend it on a 64 in order to try Win XP on a Virtual Machine with the 64 bit rig to experiment with and to find out I will run into problems with my software and ECT... this is the real battle I been facing in the past few weeks of deciding of what to do, knowing if I go 32 bit of which I have tested my software on my laptop already and works good., just the laptop with 2 gig and low end cpu 2.3 well kinda a bit slow.

The rig I want to get is a later end I5 with 4 Gigs of ram, with 7:1 sound with SGVA, HDMI and a 1TB hard drive because of all my sermons, music, PP, pic, and other stuff is up to 200 gigs of stuff. So this is the main reason if I buy this system consider what I am using now duel core 2 gig and 2.5 cpu MHX processor with win xp would be a vast improvement and w far better machine to meet the ump I need.

So back to this will you or anyone think this is going to be a killer rig to me and will I be ok and happy with it, Yes the 64 bit I would love to have but all the variables is which I cannot afford to take a chance on.

Jimbo1

[paws]

Hi Jimmy,

I understand the need to be economic and not spend unwisely...
BUT
if the only reason for upgrading is to accommodate 200Gb of data then your old machine with Win XP should do just fine...you can add extra storage very inexpensively if necessary. The crux of the matter seems to be...... do you need to use the XP machine for Internet after Spring 2014...? if you do need to do this (I.E. its essential for your church work) then the XP machine is not ( in my opinion) going to be sufficiently secure after that time.

Its always nice to have a new super dooper computer and a high end machine has its attractions...... if you are using memory intensive applications like for example Photoshop with a large scratch file then lots of memory is an advantage..... However for PowerPoint and stuff like that I doubt if you will see any significant improvement. over what you have already....

If the main purpose of upgrading to a new computer is to seek extra "performance" its necessary to be very clear about the exact problems you want to overcome and the extra "performance" that you need.

Make sure your XP machine is set up correctly (do a clean install of Win XP if possible onto a boot partition) and keep your data on a separate partition) optimise everthing... manage the startup items, manage applications so they do not all try to call "home" to update themselves all the same time..... get it all running fast and smooth all junk files removed, minimum footprint anti virus etc
(try and keep away from hefty Security Protection Suites..).they are comprehensive, in the main good, but do need considerable resources to run effectively and can have a disasterous effect upon older computer's ability to operate quickly as the maker intended! ........and then see how it goes.

Time each critical application to ascertain how long (by stopwatch) it takes to open, or get to the bit you need..... once you have some figures decide what if any improvement is needed......quantify the required improvement in seconds.....(you may be surprised)

That's not the end of the story Jimmy but hopefully it sets the scene for you.....

Lastly be clear that a new i5 computer with 4GB will show barely noticable "performance" gains for routine, non specialist applications such as sermons and PowerPoint etc ( compared with a well set up Win XP with 2Gb of RAM......

"Performance" in these terms is often a subjective issue..... what is perceived as an intolerable wait for one person, may seem to be quite quick to another!

Hope this helps
Regards
paws

Edited by paws, 11 October 2012 - 02:09 AM.
typo

[Jimbo1]

Ya you made some good points, I should have added more, yes I do a lot of photo editing with Photoshop, Music editing, Running forums, Web site design and so forth, this poor machine I am using now Dc2 2 gig of ram not cutting the mustard, but my old software and ext. Yes 64 bit is the way to go because of past system i have worked on and cleaned out and man they fly, but a friend of mine from another church bought a 64 bit rig, we went through that vitrual procress and phone calls with Microsoft and yes it caused problems with the software hanging up during mid chruch service. Several tech tried the twinking process and they ended up scraping the machine and bought another with a low end i3 with 3 gigs of ram and so far all doing ok for them B my thought of buying this rig with 4 gigs, i5 processer should be a or at least 100% improvement over this current machine and nother factor I am running into with web base design work on this system, and I know many hates it but I like it lol is IE 8 is not current or supported with some coding of htlm, CSS and HTLM5 files and one program i am using now has said my browser is no longer supported. To end this I needed a system with 7:1 for my surround sound system and plus I am doing on line preaching with on line churches. So I just wanted to know by going to 32 bit is 4 Gigs ok or is the cut off 3 Gigs and anymore than that is a waste. Thanks : )

[paws]

Hi Jimmy all understood If you go 32 bit then the maximum RAM will be 4GB...with about 3.5Gb usable (as a rule) RAM is so cheap now and most machines come with 4GB as a routine, so you should be fine with this. Although the 32bit system will not be ble to use the last "drop" of RAM it will do no harm to have 4GB installed...but dont get any extra over and above that.... if you intend to continue with 32 bit.(that would not help performance and is a waste of cash!) Regards paws

[Jimbo1]

Although the 32bit system will not be ble to use the last "drop" of RAM it will do no harm to have 4GB installed...but dont get any extra over and above that.... if you intend to continue with 32 bit.(that would not help performance and is a waste of cash!)
Regards
paws

Ya it kills me but yes I have seen the raw power and speed of using 64 systems, but to keep using what I go with no headache, I wanted to spend my money wisely and to be sure moving my files and install my bible study programs and photo editing, and everything will or find and I should see better performance than this old rig here, granted not as i could see even more in a 64 bit system, but this new system with win 7, because on my laptop I have it set up almost to look like xp.

So later on for my shop I may go with a 64 bit rig also

Thanks Paw, I feel a little better about this now.

Jimbo1