15 replies to this topic

[toyotomi]

So I might be needing to upgrade the majority of my Hardware and want to make sure I get a good setup for gaming (and video editing) for several years to come. I know a lot of people are really digging the Intel i7 chips lately, but I don't know if that's just hype. It's been a while since I was up to speed on all the hardware, but I recall that Intel's chips weren't so ideal for gaming, video editing, or heavy multi-tasking, and AMD was. I've been using AMD for a long time now, but would be willing to change if it's the better way to go. I used to be a huge fan of ATI back in the day, but ended up swapping to Nvidia when they came out with SLI (even got the first SLI mobo model Asus made). ATI has Crossfire now, so that seems to be a non issue nowadays. Which tends to have better driver support and performance nowadays? (I'm not 100% certain I'll have to replace my graphics card, but I'd like to decide on one just in case) After figuring out what CPU and GPU I want, I need to figure out what MOBO I need. I would like the MOBO to have some sort of onboard video support if possible, since the one I currently have has made troubleshooting very difficult due to the absence of anywhere to plug in a monitor without a video card. SLI/Crossfire support would be nice for future upgrades. I will finally be getting rid of my 2 IDE drives with this next build (but I'll have to put them on an external drive with a Live Linux CD or something on my current machine). I've had 3 bad Asus MOBO's in a row, so either I have amazingly bad luck, or they aren't that great. I won't be sure how much I'll have to spend until at least tomorrow, but for shits & giggles lets say $1,000 is the budget. I would be most willing to go a little overboard on the CPU and MOBO in order to make some attempt at future-proofing the machine. I'll also be getting a better cooling setup than what comes with the CPU/MOBO typically since heat was an issue with my last machine. On the note of cooling, I'd also like to get something like the Antec 900 case. Mostly I'd like to know if there's any significant difference between the brands that will effect the experience I'll have playing really high end games. One last note on hardware I'll ask here rather than making a new thread: I currently use a 37GB Raptor HDD for my C: drive. In Windows XP Pro SP2, it gets a bit too full because of things like games that save games to C: and can't be set to save elsewhere. If I upgrade to Windows 7, will I have to get a bigger HDD for C:? If so I'd probably go with the smallest practical Raptor again.

[Nahumi]

Hello toyotomi,

In terms of day to day performance, there isn't much difference between Intel and AMD, or NVIDIA and AMD. (ATi has now been re branded as 'AMD Radeon', so it might get a bit confusing.)

There is nothing stopping you from mixing CPU's, GPU's and Chipsets. Everything will work together perfectly well.

There isn't much between AMD GPU's and NVIDIA these days. The new AMD Radeon 6xxx series and NVIDIA's 5xx series are essentially matched in terms of performance and price. AMD's driver releases are less frequent, but do tend to be more stable. NVIDIA tend to do small and frequent fixes. Installing drivers more frequently will increase the chances of driver conflicts or corruptions. In all cases, a 'clean install' is advisable.

Obviously the one thing you have to keep in mind is that AMD and Intel use different sockets. Intel tends to change it's sockets everytime it releases a new series of CPU's, whereas AMD has ensured backwards compatibility for the last three generations. This means you could buy an AM3 motherboard now, and you could still use it in a few years when you buy an AM4 CPU.

Additionally, Raptor HDD's aren't particularly popular any more. In the gaming world they have now been replaced by SSD's (Solid State Drives). These drives are significantly quicker than any HDD and are inherently rugged. They might cost a bit more, but they do have an impact on boot times and the general speed of your computer.

The one thing I would say is that there do tend to be 'popular' combinations. A lot of people like to go Intel CPU -> NVIDIA GPU -> NVIDIA Chipset. And others like to go AMD CPU -> AMD GPU -> AMD Chipset. Some believe that these combinations will enable 'extra' features, such as AMD Hybrid SLI. I can't comment on any performance increase or decrease based on these combinations. But I do know that a mix of any three will always work for single GPU setups. For Crossfire/SLI you will need to choose a motherboard chipset which matches your GPU's.

At the end of the day, the combination that you choose will be entirely dependant on your own preferences and your budget. We can't really tell you what to buy, but we can advise. If you fill out the following list and post it back, we can give you some advice on alternative components. :

Basics:
1. Computer Case
2. Motherboard
3. CPU
4. RAM
5. Hard Drive
6. Graphics Card
7. PSU
8. Optical Drive - DVD/CD Drive
9. WiFi Card (optional)
10. Aftermarket CPU Cooler (optional
11. Operating System (Essential!)

Then you also need to consider :
1. Screen
2. Keyboard / Mouse
3. Speakers

Edited by Nahumi, 15 March 2011 - 04:32 AM.

[toyotomi]

Additionally, Raptor HDD's aren't particularly popular any more. In the gaming world they have now been replaced by SSD's (Solid State Drives). These drives are significantly quicker than any HDD and are inherently rugged. They might cost a bit more, but they do have an impact on boot times and the general speed of your computer.

While I consider the rest of the hardware, I have a couple questions about SSD's.

The last time I'd researched SSD's, there were a few things besides the large price difference that concerned me. One was the limited writes to the drive. If that's still the case, it seems to me that the C: drive, which gets written to constantly would be the worst drive to use for an SSD. I'm also concerned about security. "Shredding" a file on a HDD is a simple matter of overwriting the data with random 1's and 0's. On a SSD that would bring you to the write limit much faster, if that can even be done at all. Is there any way to securely and irrecoverably delete data from a SSD? Also, what about the overall volatility of the data? If a HDD eats itself, there's still a good chance at recovering the data. What are the odds of a SSD failing, or experiencing any data corruption, and in the event that anything like that does occur, what are the odds of being able to recover any good data? And after all that, if I have to get a drive bigger than 37GB, I'm not sure if it would be worth the boost compared to the price of a HDD. Price may end up being a determining factor depending on what I end up spending on other components, but those are my other concerns.

[terry1966]

everything you need to know about ssd's can be gotten here:- http://www.ocztechno...6-SSD-ABC-Guide

and if you can wait a few of months, i'd wait and see what amd's next gen of cpu's(bulldozer) perform like before making any decision on what pc i'd build, amd or intel.

Edited by terry1966, 15 March 2011 - 06:12 PM.

[toyotomi]

everything you need to know about ssd's can be gotten here:- http://www.ocztechno...6-SSD-ABC-Guide

and if you can wait a few of months, i'd wait and see what amd's next gen of cpu's(bulldozer) perform like before making any decision on what pc i'd build, amd or intel.

Thanks for the link. I think I'll wait for the prices to come down a bit more. Besides, I could upgrade to one at some point in the future when I can afford to.

I can't really wait to rebuild my PC as it's currently inoperable. So I think I'm gonna have to go with the current offerings, and it doesn't look like you can get an AM3+ mobo yet so I couldn't just get a cheap chip to tide me over if I wanted it.

So, regardless of type of HDD I install my OS on, there's one thing I'm unsure of... just how big do I need to go realistically? Lets assume I get Windows 7 Ultimate and want to use XP mode. I tend to install everything other than drivers, firewall, AV, and things that don't give a choice to the D: drive. Would the 150GB Velociraptor be plenty? (That's 10,000 RPM SATA 3Gb/s. The smallest 6Gb/s is 450GB (on newegg anyway)). I think Win7 has a larger footprint than XP, and I know the XP mode adds to that footprint... I'm just not sure how much room exactly and how much extra I should try to have on the drive.

[Nahumi]

It really depends what you're planning to use the computer for. In your case it's for gaming, so then it really depends on how many games you have. I've got a 750GB Samsung F1 (7200 RPM) and after format it's about 649GB. About a third of it is taken up in games alone, and another third is full of music, photo's and project documents. That leaves around 200GB free. Realistically, you want at least a 1TB HDD, which are pretty cheap these days. As for the footprint of Windows 7, it's recommended at to be installed on a minimum of 15GB. The actual footprint is closer to 8GB, but you have to factor in future updates etc. In the grand scheme of things, 15GB is not that much, especially considering the increasing size of both SSD's (They tend to range from 32GB to 256GB) and HDD (Which are now up to 2 or 3 TB).

Edited by Nahumi, 16 March 2011 - 03:24 AM.

[toyotomi]

Ok so here's what I've come up with so far... this isn't final and frankly I need to bring the price down a bit. I've priced it out for local and online, though I only know a couple online stores.

1. Computer Case - Antec 902 V3 - $139 Locally
2. Motherboard - ASUS Crosshair IV Formula - $279 Locally
3. CPU - AMD Phenom II x6 1100T Black Edition - $229.99 Newegg with $15 gift card (free S&H) - $279 Locally
4. RAM - PC-10600 DDR3 1333 4GB (Unknown brand, but it's from my local store and only $69, it'll do for now)
5. Hard Drive* - WD Velociraptor 150GB HDD $109.99 Newegg (free S&H) - $179 Locally
6. Graphics Card - GTS 250 (My old one, will upgrade when I have spare change) - Free? (assuming it's not FUBAR)
7. PSU - No idea. I have a 550W one currently. If it'll be adequate I'll keep it. I'm not sure how big a PSU I need with this setup honestly. - Free?
8. Optical Drive - 2 DVD R/W's (old drives I'll be reusing) - Free
9. WiFi Card - None - Free
10. CPU Cooler - Corsair Hydro H50 $61.36 Newegg after MIR - $79.99 BestBuy or Corsair Hydro H70 $94.81 Newegg after MIR - $109.99 BestBuy (Need advice here)
11. Operating System - Windows 7 Ultimate $274.99 Newegg

*The Velociraptor 150GB is $179 from my computer store of choice. It's $109 from Newegg. Best Buy doesn't carry the 150GB model, but the 300GB model is $179... the same price as my comp store for the 150GB. I could probably talk them down to a reasonable price though.

Locally (when possible) = ~$1024.99 (Minus OS)
Newegg = ~$888.34 (Minus OS)
Both prices assume the cheaper CPU cooler
____________________________________

So... that's basically the setup I want. But I need some help trimming the price tag. Wherever I get the CPU from, I"ll be having my computer store install it to the motherboard for me, and possibly the cooler as well since I don't wanna risk damaging the chip. I'm not sure I want to order a HDD online with the number of DOA reports on Newegg. For the Coolers, I'm not sure those are the best option, but cooling has always been a problem for me, and those both have great reviews... but I'm not sure how well they'll work in that case with such short tubes. I'm getting the Mobo locally if they have it in stock since Newegg doesn't. I think that's the case I want, but I'm open to suggestions. I want really, really good airflow, and the intake fans need to have washable/cleanable screens.

I've always been reluctant to buy online because of concerns related to customer support, return policies, etc. So I usually buy locally since I like their service and hate dealing with shipping, even if I have to pay a little more. But right now money matters and I need to save where I can. So I'm willing to buy some things online.

The real killer here is Windows 7. In all previous versions of Windows that I've used, I've bought the OEM version. I've been using my OEM Windows XP Pro SP1 (slipstreamed to SP2) for 8-9 years. But I come to find out that the Windows 7 OEM is a one-time use only key. So if I changed my hardware, I'd have to buy Windows again. I'm not willing to do that. I've gone through 3 or 4 computers under XP...and I only had to pay for it once. From what I can tell it's either impossible or difficult and potentially buggy to try to do a clean install of Windows 7 with the upgrade edition. So again that brings me back to being stuck buying the Full edition for $275. Is there any way to get it cheaper? The few sites I looked at were all either more expensive or appeared to be mislabeled OEM versions. I still need to check with my local store to check their prices.

Also, if there's any problems with that setup other than price... please let me know. It's been a long time since I've built a rig from scratch.

Edited by toyotomi, 18 March 2011 - 12:05 AM.

[toyotomi]

Ok so here's what I've come up with so far... this isn't final and frankly I need to bring the price down a bit. I've priced it out for local and online, though I only know a couple online stores.

1. Computer Case - Antec 902 V3 - $139 Locally
2. Motherboard - ASUS Crosshair IV Formula - $279 Locally
3. CPU - AMD Phenom II x6 1100T Black Edition - $229.99 Newegg with $15 gift card (free S&H) - $279 Locally
4. RAM - PC-10600 DDR3 1333 4GB (Unknown brand, but it's from my local store and only $69, it'll do for now)
5. Hard Drive* - WD Velociraptor 150GB HDD $109.99 Newegg (free S&H) - $179 Locally
6. Graphics Card - GTS 250 (My old one, will upgrade when I have spare change) - Free? (assuming it's not FUBAR)
7. PSU - No idea. I have a 550W one currently. If it'll be adequate I'll keep it. I'm not sure how big a PSU I need with this setup honestly. - Free?
8. Optical Drive - 2 DVD R/W's (old drives I'll be reusing) - Free
9. WiFi Card - None - Free
10. CPU Cooler - Corsair Hydro H50 $61.36 Newegg after MIR - $79.99 BestBuy or Corsair Hydro H70 $94.81 Newegg after MIR - $109.99 BestBuy (Need advice here)
11. Operating System - Windows 7 Ultimate $274.99 Newegg

*The Velociraptor 150GB is $179 from my computer store of choice. It's $109 from Newegg. Best Buy doesn't carry the 150GB model, but the 300GB model is $179... the same price as my comp store for the 150GB. I could probably talk them down to a reasonable price though.

Locally (when possible) = ~$1024.99 (Minus OS)
Newegg = ~$888.34 (Minus OS)
Both prices assume the cheaper CPU cooler
____________________________________

So... that's basically the setup I want. But I need some help trimming the price tag. Wherever I get the CPU from, I"ll be having my computer store install it to the motherboard for me, and possibly the cooler as well since I don't wanna risk damaging the chip. I'm not sure I want to order a HDD online with the number of DOA reports on Newegg. For the Coolers, I'm not sure those are the best option, but cooling has always been a problem for me, and those both have great reviews... but I'm not sure how well they'll work in that case with such short tubes. I'm getting the Mobo locally if they have it in stock since Newegg doesn't. I think that's the case I want, but I'm open to suggestions. I want really, really good airflow, and the intake fans need to have washable/cleanable screens.

I've always been reluctant to buy online because of concerns related to customer support, return policies, etc. So I usually buy locally since I like their service and hate dealing with shipping, even if I have to pay a little more. But right now money matters and I need to save where I can. So I'm willing to buy some things online.

The real killer here is Windows 7. In all previous versions of Windows that I've used, I've bought the OEM version. I've been using my OEM Windows XP Pro SP1 (slipstreamed to SP2) for 8-9 years. But I come to find out that the Windows 7 OEM is a one-time use only key. So if I changed my hardware, I'd have to buy Windows again. I'm not willing to do that. I've gone through 3 or 4 computers under XP...and I only had to pay for it once. From what I can tell it's either impossible or difficult and potentially buggy to try to do a clean install of Windows 7 with the upgrade edition. So again that brings me back to being stuck buying the Full edition for $275. Is there any way to get it cheaper? The few sites I looked at were all either more expensive or appeared to be mislabeled OEM versions. I still need to check with my local store to check their prices.

Also, if there's any problems with that setup other than price... please let me know. It's been a long time since I've built a rig from scratch.

As an update... I'm having a very hard time actually finding this MOBO. My local store is out of stock, but I can see how long it will be before they can get more on Monday. But I honestly doubt they'll even be able to get it since pretty much all online sellers I've come across are out of stock. Amazon has a seller that says they have stock, but they also have a lot of reviews from people saying they label items as in stock when they aren't and take your money anyway (and won't refund). So that's kinda a no-go. Really not sure what MOBO to go to next. That Crosshair IV had a ton of features and I'm not sure if anything else will compare. I could use some help figuring out what to get instead, or if I'm really lucky where to get the one I want.

[Nahumi]

Hello toyotomi, Sorry for the late reply. From a hardware compatibility standpoint, it should all work fine. So that's a good thing. My only two concerns is that you're choosing a high performance drive over a high capacity drive. Unless you forgot to list a second HDD, I would suggest you buy at least a secondary 320GB HDD to store any games. Games are getting increasingly large, some taking up to 15GB. IF you're anything like me, you'll fill up your HDD fairly quickly with games at that size. My second concern is that the MOBO you've chosen may have a few redundant features. You've gone for a motherboard that supports three GPU's, but the problem is that it only supports ATI's Crossfire technology. You wouldn't be able to have two or three NVIDIA cards in SLI. Considering you've got a GTS 250 at the moment, shelling out for a crossfire motherboard might not be in your best interests. If you're planning to link a few AMD GPU's in the future, then I would say go ahead, but in any other case you may want to rethink your motherboard choice. You may benefit from a single PCI-E slot motherboard. These tend to be cheaper and offer you more PCI slots in return. Other than that, you've made good choices all round. When you do eventually upgrade your GPU, you may need to upgrade the PSU to provide enough power for the system.

[toyotomi]

Hello toyotomi,

Sorry for the late reply.

From a hardware compatibility standpoint, it should all work fine. So that's a good thing.

My only two concerns is that you're choosing a high performance drive over a high capacity drive. Unless you forgot to list a second HDD, I would suggest you buy at least a secondary 320GB HDD to store any games. Games are getting increasingly large, some taking up to 15GB. IF you're anything like me, you'll fill up your HDD fairly quickly with games at that size.

My second concern is that the MOBO you've chosen may have a few redundant features. You've gone for a motherboard that supports three GPU's, but the problem is that it only supports ATI's Crossfire technology. You wouldn't be able to have two or three NVIDIA cards in SLI. Considering you've got a GTS 250 at the moment, shelling out for a crossfire motherboard might not be in your best interests. If you're planning to link a few AMD GPU's in the future, then I would say go ahead, but in any other case you may want to rethink your motherboard choice. You may benefit from a single PCI-E slot motherboard. These tend to be cheaper and offer you more PCI slots in return.

Other than that, you've made good choices all round. When you do eventually upgrade your GPU, you may need to upgrade the PSU to provide enough power for the system.

Yeah, I have a WD Caviar Black 1TB drive that's been sitting on the shelf waiting to be installed for over a year. The Raptor is just for the boot drive.

I'm going to reuse my GTS 250 until I have enough cash to buy a new AMD/ATI card, and eventually set up crossfire. But for now the 250 will tide me over until I can actually spare the expense.

I've been having trouble finding a trustworthy retailer that has the MOBO in stock (or isn't mislabeled as in stock when it's not). On Monday I'll be able to see if my local store will be able to order one or not. If they can't, I'm thinking about going with NCIX. I had never heard of NCIX before, but they're a Canadian store/site and apparently have a good reputation. They also have a US site. Still checking out other sites though, just in case there's a closer/better option.

[terry1966]

i'm a gigabyte fan so i'd get this :- http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813128441

compare link of both boards:- http://www.newegg.co...4^13-131-644-TS

Edited by terry1966, 22 March 2011 - 05:57 AM.

[toyotomi]

I just ordered my MOBO from NCIXUS. I checked Newegg right before placing the order to see if they'd gotten new stock. It was still listed as out of stock. So, I continued with my purchase and after checking out and getting my confirmation emails I went back to Newegg to order my other items. And as it happens, while I was placing my order Newegg listed the MOBO as in stock.... freaking figures. Oh well. I also ordered the Case, Cooler, Win 7 Pro 64-bit, G.SKILL Ripjaws 8GB RAM, and some Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound on Newegg. All I have left to do is sit around and wait for my parts to arrive, then go buy my CPU and HDD from my local store.

[Nahumi]

Good luck with the install! P.S (I'm glad to hear you're using Arctic Silver 5. Check the heatsink to see whether it has a pre-applied TIM pad. If it has, you'll need to clean it off properly, same as you would with any other TIM). Let us know how it goes.

[terry1966]

at least you finally found a place that had it in stock, and your getting the board you wanted. have lots of fun with your new build and no problems, fingers crossed.

[toyotomi]

Good news and some not-so-good news.

Good news is that I got all the parts I had ordered and the install went fine. The only little hitch was that I'd planned to use the WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostics to test my HDD's before using them but the thing wouldn't boot up. Oh well. They seem to be fine. I've been downloading (steam) and installing all the games I own over the last few days... well over 100 of them. The Mobo is great, and the RAM is as well (running at 1600 and did a few hours of Memtest86+). I installed the Corsair H50 cooler and it was way easier than I had thought it would be. I did some reading and apparently the pre-applied thermal compound is Masscool Shin Etsu . It seems to be close to Arctic Silver 5 in terms of quality, so I figured I'd test it out. I still have the Arctic Silver 5 on hand if I feel I need the boost in performance later. With only only fan on the H50's radiator pulling air in from the back of the case (leaving only the top fan exhausting) I'm idling at around 36°C. I'd love to see that in the 20's but it's way, way better than my previous build. I bought Windows 7 Professional and the install went fine. It's a bit to get used to from XP though, and I keep forgetting about setting some things to run as administrator.

The not-so-good news is that it turns out my video card was bad. Loaded up Battlefield Bad Company 2 and in 10 or so minutes it locked up just like on the old system. I ordered a Sapphire 6970 to replace it. With the upgrade in video cards I also had to upgrade my PSU. I got a Corsair 750W power supply. I used the little wattage calculator on Newegg and it suggested 750. Supposedly they recommend a bit more than you'd need but I'm ok with that. Both parts should arrive sometime today. The bad part about getting a new video card.... I'm not sure it'll fit in my case. So far all signs point to no.. at least not without modifying my case or layout. So one way or another I'll make it work. I just wish my desk was tall enough I could have gotten the Antec 1200 and it wouldn't be a problem. Worst case scenario is I have to take a dremmel tool to one of the drive bays. This also puts me way over my originally planned budget, but I shouldn't have to buy any computer parts for a good long while now. This really is a new computer. The only re-used parts are the DVD-burners.

Thanks for the help folks.