154 replies to this topic

[Doug]

I suspect that the reference to High Speed v Classic relates at least partially to USB 2.0 vs USB 1 and 1.1 But there may be other distinctions. For instance, some of your Hubs may have ability to route fire-wire as well as USB transmission. Rate and frequency may create a conflict, but that is beyond my technical familiarity. I further suspect that "most" of the conflicts/slowdowns that you experience relate to any differences of USB Hubs that may be in use to route the various Drives to each other for copy/paste activities. You may actually gain some mastery of the situation by testing the use of various combinations of the the hardware that you already own, and see what works best together for your purposes Using a consistent collection of USB Hubs "may" be an upgrade worth considering. I think that it is also important to consider the sheer amount of data that may become involved in transfers, particularly if you are attempting to move information from more than one HD to more than one destination HD, all at the same time plus doing some file renaming all at the same time. Remember that your motherboard has to handle it all. And (no criticism intended) I believe that your motherboard may be one of the earlier 64bit cabable boards and has relatively small cache volumes. And then, of course, there is the matter of fragmentation and available Free Space that we've both mentioned. Get that one fixed (fragmentation and available Free Space) no matter what you eventually do with your USB Hubs. Please keep us posted with your progress. It's an interesting situation. Doug

[DSenette]

have 4 USB ports on my computer. One of them is for my printer and the another is for my speaker system. I use the other two for HUBS and each HUB has another HUB daisy-chained from it.

my two questions to see if more light can be shed...are these self powered hubs? or are they powered through the USB port that they connect to? same with the external HD's are they self powered or powered by USB?

[Denise_M]

I really like the High-Speed USB 2.0 7-Port HUB Powered +AC Adapter Cable that I got at eBay. It would be worth looking into replacing the other USB HUBs that I have. All of my USB ext hdds are 2.0, no 1.1. I can work with them all turned on but it's unnecessary because 1/2 of them are back-up drives. All of the HUBs and ext hdds have a power cords. None are self-powered from a USB connection. I purchased a Maxtor One Touch III ext hdd and found out that they don't have on/off switches. I have to remove the power supply cord from the rear of the drive in order to turn it off. I won't be buying anymore of them.

[Denise_M]

I just tried PC Pitstop several times again but it gave me the same message, "Unable to load results."
http://www.pcpitstop...;conid=21207314

So I've been trying to register to their forum to find the reason but each time I try to register, I can't.

Edited by Denise_M, 04 November 2008 - 03:20 PM.

[kazzoo]

Greetings Denise_M Looks like you have attracted quite a number of Techs to your thread. Looks like you are getting to test all of the usual suspects. Shame you can't get the PCpitstop up and going. Would eliminate a lot of quess work. One of things Techs love to have happen is for the computer to fail while they have it in front of them. You have to be that person, and what to look for. Some of the things I find puzzling is that the computer starts out ok, but given time the perfomance goes bad to worse. This performance seems to go bad when you do so intensive reading/writing from harddrives. Usual suspects are things like heat, failing components, bad device drivers, configuration problems. Looks that you have covered a lot of that ground. You do a reboot and it seems better. I would have you run a experiment, I would have you do a transfer of files like you would normally do that causes you problem with slowdowns but with a difference. I would have you unplug from the internet (pull the plug) and turn off (this is very important) all of the antivirus/malware programs you have running. See if you get the freezing you experienced. Try a movie like you do that gives you the choppy performance and see if it does this. What you are trying to determine if your antivirus/malware protection is seeing transfer of files as something it needs to scan while you are doing it. This would explain what you are experiencing as well. Starts out ok, then slows and slows till all of the cpu/memory is occupied with this action. Fixes its self with a reboot. because you clear all actions. If you get good results with all turned off we at least may have the culprit. If not, nothing lost and we eliminated a possible. But make sure you have them all (antimalware/antivirus software) off or the test will not be valid. Regards Kaz

[Denise_M]

Hi kazzoo,

I would have you run a experiment, I would have you do a transfer of files like you would normally do that causes you problem with slowdowns but with a difference.
I would have you unplug from the internet (pull the plug) and turn off (this is very important) all of the antivirus/malware programs you have running.
See if you get the freezing you experienced. Try a movie like you do that gives you the choppy performance and see if it does this.

I'll have to wait to do this because I rebooted this afternoon and the problem won't show up for at least 12 hours. Thanks for your suggestion and I'll let you know the results.


Since I can't get PC Pitstop to work, I thought that I'd run the program that tallin didn't recommend . I'll clean my pc as soon as I post the results here.

C:\MY PROGRAMS\Computer Programs\LookInMyPC\Reports\DENISE\LookInMyPCReport.htm

There were some Services that I started this morning for my daughter. I haven't stopped those services yet so there'll be some that don't need to run, such as Telephony, Remote Desktop Help Session Manager, etc.

Edited by Denise_M, 04 November 2008 - 08:14 PM.

[tallin]

Hi Denise,

Denise_M wrote: Since I can't get PC Pitstop to work, I thought that I'd run the program that tallin didn't recommend . I'll clean my pc as soon as I post the results here

There is nothing wrong with Look in My PC, I could have put my post a little differently to you re the software. The reason I said, I could not recommend it was I do not currently have it on my computers....there are so many others of the same ilk that we volunteers are apt to go from one to the other using them before we do recommend them to Members who post in as you do.

Download and install it by all means, I am very familiar with it and it will cause you no harm at all to have a look and run it.

Here is another that will not correct your current problem, but may be of interest to you in the future.

Just one more thought..... if you reboot, then immediately try to run a PCPitstop Scan, does it still refuse to work for you?

Have you got the latest

• Java Runtime 6 Update 10 installed along with
• Adobe FlashPlayer 10 Active X
• Adobe Flashplayer Plugin
• Adobe Shockwave Player 11

I have all the above, anything I want to do on my systems works without a hitch so perhaps you maybe short of one or two of the above programs.

Post back as others will continue to assist you I am sure.

kind regards,

Edited by tallin, 04 November 2008 - 09:04 PM.

[Denise_M]

Hi tallin, I had , Adobe Flash Player 10 Active X and Adobe Reader 6.0.1. and just installed Java Runtime Environment Version 6 Update 10 and Adobe Shockwave Player 11. The first time I ran PC Pitsotp, it worked fine. All the test completed and all the results were available. Since I couldn't find an easy way to copy the test results to paste them here, I quit the test results and posted just one of the test results. When Doug informed me that I could just copy the url of the test results, I tried the test again, but it wouldn't work. I must've tried at least 10 times but I keep receiving the message that the tests were unsuccessful. Did LookInMyPC offer enough information or is PC Pitstop still needed?

[Doug]

Denise, When you log into the PCPitstop Full Tests, you will be presented with option to "test this system", or "view previous test results" Since your first attempt resulted in a successful completion of the Tests, please attempt to open the "previous test results' Copy the URL for that previous test reults. That will give us a starting point, and maybe even a clue as to why you are having trouble with re-running the Tests. Best Regards

[tallin]

Hi Denise,

Did LookInMyPC offer enough information or is PC Pitstop still needed?

I did not see any information posted in this thread by you after installing LookinMyPC

The ultimate would be for you to post that link from your first PCPitstop test as requested. Do that first, then try yet another test now you have

and just installed Java Runtime Environment Version 6 Update 10 and Adobe Shockwave Player 11.

installed. I Don't think those two installations will make a great difference if any, but one never knows with your issues.

We are all attempting to help you here, it is amazing the number of talented techie volunteers that have come by to try to assist you............even one from a sister/brother forum so the PM's have been flying around on your behalf me thinks.

Keep coming back and especially if you can post that link to your Pitstop test.

Best regards,

Edited by tallin, 05 November 2008 - 01:33 AM.

[Digerati]

Hi Denise,

I have been asked to take a look at this thread to see if there is something a fresh set of eyes may spot. So from the first post, summarizing and thinking out loud, I note the following :

I formatted my pc last week so the Windows files should still be in their original state.

Why? Note that is always the last resort, not only because of all the work involved at rebuilding, but because nothing is learned about the original problems.

I am not a big fan of PCPitStop - they use their own terminology instead of industry and product standard expressions. This has on several occasions caused misunderstandings, notably using terms different from Microsoft with virtual memory settings in the registry, and confusion over System Restore (though not necessarily harmful) recommendations. Plus, they are pretty aggressive at pushing folks to buy their products to fix those "apparent" problems for my liking. That said, many of colleagues like it, so I am sure my concerns are just anal! Plus, they took on Gator and I commend them for that!

NOTE: Sometimes, in particular with graphics, the latest driver is not the best. You might try the previous, if it worked fine.

Copying large and many files has always been a slow process - especially if done across the same drive controller. That's one reason the MS programmers developed the PowerToy, SyncToy.

The choppy graphics and the folder overlay won't happen again until my computer's been on for about 12 hours.

That points to heat. Open the side panel and blast a desk fan in there and see what happens.

I installed a system fan in the rear of the case that blows in cool air.

That is wrong. Your goal should be good front-to-back air flow. You need to turn that fan around. Do you have a fan in front too? Fans in front, and on side panel (if present) always draw cool air in. Fans in back, and on top (if "blowhole" fan present) always exhaust hot air out. The only turbulence desired is on top of the heatsinks for the CPU, GPU, and chipsets (if active cooling - with fan). If the chipset uses passive cooling (no fan), then it uses flow from the case, and CPU fan (a newbie mistake with watercooling is forgetting the CPU fan is used to cool surround regulator circuitry and passive cooled chipsets).

I always recommend at least one 120mm fan in front and one 120mm fan in back, not counting any fan(s) in the power supply. 120mm fans are great because they move massive amounts of air, but are much quieter than the typical 80mm fans.

My isp gave me a new router because my pc slows down after 24 to 36 hours

Router? Or "gateway" (the cable or DSL modem)?

I've been trying to figure this out since I built this pc.

Wait! So this PC has never worked right? That changes things. Do not jeopardize any warranties. Did you use Thermal Interface Material?

I turned on all of my ext hdds but it seems that the test won't test them all, so I've been turning some of them off.

Instead of just turning them off, unplug them. Unplug ALL external firewire, SATA, and USB (sans keyboard/mouse) devices and see what happens.

I see you said all the hubs are self powered and that's good. Are all storage devices too. All the power blocks should be connected to same power source as the computer power supply too. That is, everything from the same wall outlet - with your UPS w/AVR in between, of course. This ensures no difference in polarity or potentials between devices due to being plugged into two main AC circuits, or incorrectly wired outlets.

Hmmm, I saw a b: drive - a: and b: lettering is typically saved for floppies, though they can be reassigned. What is your b: device? And what happened to f:?

That is sure is a lot of drive letters, and movie files - PLEASE tell me you have not downloaded these from P2P sites, and that all have been legally obtained and that you using all those for your own, personal non-commercial use!

@Doug - I have no viewer that can make sense of the What's Running file here: http://forums.whatth...967#entry497967

I lost 4 ext hdds within the past 6 months

How?

then Power Defragmenter GUI, followed by Windows Defragmenter

One or the other, but you don't need both. Although Windows Defrag is more basic, and not as aggressive, it works just fine. And besides, as soon as a drive is used again, fragmentation starts all over again. Additionally, today's drives with 8, 16, and now 32Mb buffers are common and along with a properly configured page file, fragmentation (and in turn, defragging) does not impact performance the way it used to with small drives, 2Mb buffers, and less RAM.

USB 2 devices are labeled USB2 or High Speed.

Okay - now I see you said and ext drives are self powered too - so good, but again, all need to be plugged into the same source.
*************
I have some chores - I hope something I said at least triggers another thought for those following. Good luck.

[Denise_M]

This is the url where I can check my first test results but when I click on the test, it says "Unable to Load Results."
http://www.pcpitstop...apit/browse.asp

[Doug]

Denise_M, It is not "essential" to get PCPitstop Full Tests results. And not getting the Results won't prevent us from working to resolve your current problem. The "Look in my PC" tool recommended by Tallin, is also useful, but not essential at this time. I've used it and it is safe. Don't beat yourself up trying to get the Tests Results posted. I've sent you a PM about the PCPitstop Tests. Please Reply by PM if you wish to follow up. Please carefully review the posted suggestions from Kazzoo and from Digerati. There are some excellent considerations in each. Keep us posted with your progress. Best Regards

[Denise_M]

Hi Digerati,

Thanks for taking a look.

Why? Note that is always the last resort, not only because of all the work involved at rebuilding, but because nothing is learned about the original problems.

I had just performed a Repair to get rid of the little bugs (not viruses) and, afterwards, I couldn't get on the internet. I've had the same problems since I built my pc and they will come back, no worries. It's one thing I've learned.

Sometimes, in particular with graphics, the latest driver is not the best. You might try the previous, if it worked fine.

I didn't update all of them because I already had the latest. I'm having the same problems with the few new drivers as I did with the old ones.

Copying large and many files has always been a slow process

I have a friend who has a SATA pc, 64-bit os. Her's will transfer a single 750Mb movie within 30 seconds. Mine takes 2 minutes. My old PATA system took 2 minutes. This is my comparison point. I don't have the best and fastest mobo, RAM or CPU but the mobo is SATA, I have 2x1G twin sticks of RAM and a dual core processor. I expected this computer to be a lot faster than my old PATA but it's just a little faster.

That points to heat. Open the side panel and blast a desk fan in there and see what happens.

I have a desk fan that blows on my ext hdds. I intermittently have it blow on the side of my pc for about 1/2 hr and it lowers the temp. Since I cleaned the dust off the system fan, the temp hasn't gotten above 39ºC without the fan blowing on it.

Your goal should be good front-to-back air flow. You need to turn that fan around. Do you have a fan in front too? Fans in front, and on side panel (if present) always draw cool air in.

There is a grated hole on the side panel just opposite of the heatsink fan. I am assuming it was put there so that the heatsink fan will draw cool air in for the CPU.
I don't have a front fan. I'll turn the rear fan around so that it's pulling hot air out and will buy a front fan when I'm able.

Router? Or "gateway" (the cable or DSL modem)?

I have cable. The cable wire is connected to my computer. I have a Netgear wireless Gateway router/modem combo for the other computers in my home. The other computers are used very little.

Did you use Thermal Interface Material?

Yes, I did.

Instead of just turning them off, unplug them. Unplug ALL external firewire, SATA, and USB (sans keyboard/mouse) devices and see what happens.

I'll do that the next time I run the test. Also, when I installed Adobe Shockwave Player 11 and Java, one of them rebooted my computer without asking so I turned it off after it rebooted and unplugged the modem/router and unplugged everything from the wall outlet so that no electricity would be available to my pc overnight. I turned on my computer at around 11:30 am so the 12 hour period will start at that time.


I lost 4 ext hard drives because they stopped working. Actually, 2 of them run intermittently so that I can't count on them and, therefore, stopped using them. One of them will no longer work on my computer but it works on my daughter's computer. It was the first drive that I connected to my computer after the format, hoping that the format would do something to help it, but it didn't. It tones that it's turning on but it doesn't show up in My Computer. The other one stopped working approximately 2 weeks after I connected it to my pc. I don't know the reason why they stopped working. They turn on, I feel them spinning up when I hold them, but they stop, then spin up, then stop, then spin up, etc. I tried new cables and power supply cords, and I plugged them into different surge protectors, but it didn't help.

My electrical setup consists of a one 2-outlet wall outlet in which I plugged in a 6-outlet adapter. My tower, printer, speaker system and a lamp use 4 of the outlets. The other two outlets are used for surge protectors, 2 daisy-chained from each. The only other outlet in the room is on the other side of the room, approximately 18 feet away. I think that I also mentioned that I purchased 2 more USB HUBs that are the same as the last one that I purchased, so that all of my USB 2.0 HUBs will be the same.

I saw a b: drive

When I had all of my ext hdds connected and working, I ran out of letters in the alphabet to assign to drives. When I turn those on, they chose either b or f. These are backup drives that I turn on approximately once every other week or so in order to backup files to them and I then turn them off. Last week, I ordered a new 750G ext hdd to replace one that just stopped working and I ordered another one yesterday to replace another one that stopped working a couple of months ago.


I very much appreciate all the help that I'm receiving from so many pc guru's (my expression for talented techs). You've all be terrific!

[Denise_M]

I used What's Running again, without converting it to a .txt file, which made a mess out of it. I took screenshots of Serives only. There are also a Drivers tab, Startup tab and a System Info tab. The Drivers tab contains a very long list so I thought it best not to include it in this post and wait to see if anyone wants to see it.

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