44 replies to this topic

[8210GUY]

Assuming that you have actually started the flashing process, then do NOT turn it off, it could kill the board.
More to come in edit.

*edit
OK had to do that as you wanted a quick answer, so should you not see anything else until you get back then your at least safe.
Now I have no ideas what you have done to initiate the bios upgrade, I assume from the fact you haven't mentioned about the system clock that all was correct there ?
Here is a guide on how to flash the bios, at least it appears to be from what I could make out, you should always follow the guide from the makers because it is the safest approach, blundering into a bios update can cause problems, so I suggest leave it on while you go out and see whats happened when you get back.
The flash process shouldn't take more than a few minutes usually, so either you have not done something correctly, or the board is messed up as I started to wonder above, and it's not allowing you to do this, so go out and have fun, then see whats going on when you get back, if your lucky it's just fighting the boards error, and may complete while your out, but report back with results when you get in, and we will go from there.

Edited by 8210GUY, 13 September 2009 - 09:57 AM.

[Liqid]

well the instructions are as limited as they appear on that page it basically says to download it to a directory on the machine and run them well i cant downlad them to any directory on the machine because i cant that far into the BOOTING of windows so my only option is to burn it as DATA onto a CD drop the CD in the CD drive of the bad machine tell the machine to boot from the CD DRIVE then restart it let it call whatever it can from the CD which would be the .exe file i just downloaded and placed on the disc well... thats about what i did. About 10 mins later at MOST it was still loading the CD contents but the file is only about 2MB in size As for the clock.... it was only off by a few seconds compared to my other machine so that wasnt the problem Lets see whats happens with the BIOS FLASH from the CD drive now back in a while ( quite a while) to see where that went to. Im going to leave it alone and return in about an hour (its 7:39pm) now

[8210GUY]

I haven't seen it as it was an application, so can't say about what you have seen, but I can guide generally about this, and the most important thing is to make sure you extract the file(s), the initial file you download is probably compressed, so make sure you extract the file(s) from the downloaded file, because these are the files required, and will be what the system is looking for, I am guessing this may be the problem here given your replies so far. The problem with flashing the bios is there is no specific standard method, different makers can have different approaches, but what I have found with new(er) systems, is that booting to a media source that has the extracted files on usually opens the automated update, I say automated, but it's as simple as following the on screen prompts, once complete it "may" automatically reboot, and if it does, it "may" give a settings error, this is fine if it does, it has reset the CMOS, so enter the settings and set the time and date, then F10 exit and save, thats the flash process complete, then it's fingers crossed to see if it finally boots.

[Liqid]

well i just downloaded it onto my GOOD laptop tried to extract the files from the sp35204.exe file it pulls from the website however.... theres nothing to extract the exe file is the only file there is. It needs to executed to work So from reading your post above i tried to execute the file on my GOOD laptop however it wants to FLASH the BIOS on this machine i was going to allow it to install itself into its own fold on this good computer and then i would pull the file i needed out onto a CD and drop that into the BAD LAPTOP CD DRIVE however that didnt work. It just wants to EXECUTE the file on my good laptop and run the BIOS but thats not good as for getting the correct file to execute on the CD drive of teh BAD laptop now im stumped again not sure how to get that working cause its now many hours later and the CD drive is still running

[8210GUY]

NEVER flash ANY software to a system it was not made for, you will probably kill components, so don't ever try that again.
OK the drive constantly running means it can't find what it needs, as such it can't of physically of started the flash yet, in my experience anyway, they certainly don't want to make thing's easy thats a fact, and given they want people to install this from within windows is crazy, it's the most dangerous way to do it.

Anyway I can only think of 1 last possible thing to try, I suggest getting 7-Zip if you don't have it, it's a file compression program, very good and free, now create a new folder on your desktop, name is irrelevant, just right click in an open area and select New - Folder.
Next drag the original file into that folder, now open the folder and right click on the file, look down the options for 7-Zip, expand that then click on "Extract Here" and it will unpack the file, this will be another compressed file, so repeat this again, this time it will create a folder, and inside that will be 16 files, burn those 16 files ONLY to a disk and try again, do NOT copy the folder or any other files, just the files within the extracted folder and try again.

The reason for creating a new folder to do this is simple, some files have 100's of files that will flood your desktop (or wherever you save it to), being in a folder of it's own means cleaning up is simple, just delete the folder and job done.
Now I must stress this is a pure gamble, I have never come across such a restricted bios update before, so I have no idea what may happen, but I am working on the basis the board is stuffed anyway, so it can't do more damage than is already there, you should NEVER mess about like this with a working system, I really hope this works now, because if it doesn't I fear your looking at taking it to a repair place for a new board, laptops are not the easiest of things to take apart, so paying someone used to doing that may be a better option for you, so heres hoping.

[Liqid]

ok 8Guy i used the 7Zip program ( i actually used to have that til a few months ago.. removed it because i just never had enough use for it) So i extracted everything down to its actual files and then burned JUST the files to CD. Dropped it into the bad laptop, and restarted it i see a blinking cursor on the screen, the CD drive light blinking steadily, and the LED in the front of the machine indicating the HARD DRIVE is reading information blinking in unison with the CD drive. Well thats all good news i suppose but the bad news is thats been going for more then 10 minutes now Doing anything to the keys results in no activity either. Did i miss answering anything else?

[8210GUY]

Well I fear we are almost as far in as we can go with this now, I don't think you have missed anything above, but the next bit is something I stumble around with more than know what\how to do, at least in the way to guide someone, but I will do my best, but here are 2 last desperate attempts, if these fail I fear you will have to take it for repair, probably a new motherboard, because the fact this is failing it appears to support the thought of a faulty board, and this is often the most impossible thing to be certain about, so sometimes it takes a leap of faith, and I fear we are about at that point now.

Here goes anyway, tried looking through the manual(s) and saw no bios settings anywhere, so what I need you to do is concentrate on the display as you power on, keep watching and reading the info that is displayed, you may need to boot several times to read it all, because it can flash by quickly, what I need you to watch out for is ANY mention of pressing certain keys to enter the bios set up utility, not that wont be the exact term, and is not to be confused with entering the bios settings, you are looking for a utility to aid flashing the bios.
Should that show nothing, then enter the bios settings as you have previously, now you are looking for the same thing again, I don't know the exact name, but you again are looking for anything to do with a utility for updating the bios, if you find this via any method run that then direct it to the optical drive for the files it needs.

Now if nothing shows there I can only think of one last desperate attempt to do this, and this is where I start to stumble around, the first thing we need to do is enter the dos part of the system, this appears like the bios setting (black background etc), and requires the use of dos commands to move around and do things.
So first thing we need is to get a boot disk, again this is an area I am not that clued up about, so hopefully from what little I can advise and what you can achieve hopefully we can get you there.
While I was looking for a boot disk, I was unable to clearly identify the best disk for you, but, I did come across another file that showed some promise, so heres hoping it can help.

Go Here, look for the "BOOTABLE CD" section, it's in the top part of the list in the second paragraph kind of thing, under that heading there is a 2nd section called "Need To Flash Your BIOS On A PC With No 1.44 Read.1st" that is what you need to look for, hopefully if you use that following the read me section you will be able to make that disk, I just wish I could guide better on this but it's not something I have got experience with, if your lucky you can create a disk with the files and flash via that.

Alternately (and what I was going for before I saw that disk) you need to get the system into dos mode, eg a black or blue screen with text only, and all it will show is C:\> or something along those lines, then simply using dos commands direct the system to run the flash file.
Again this is a bit over my range, but you first need to change the directory your in, "cd" is the command line to do this, so you will need to type "cd D:\" (ALL quotes should be typed without the quotes), this assumes your optical drive is the D drive, if not replace with the correct designation, you will know if this has worked because the C:\ will change to D:\, now you need to run the flash utility on the disk, so you need to type "D:\run swinflash"
Now I may not be exactly right here, as I say I stumble around with this area, because it's many years since I have used dos command lines, and have probably forgotten small details that may make the difference between working or not, if you type a command that fails it will tell you, if this happens we will need to figure out the exact line required, sorry I can't be clearer, but I hope with what little I have been able to say helps a bit anyway.

[Liqid]

just getting into this one now but i fear the problem is either A) Friend M-Board B) Fried processor C) Fired Power Pack ( whatever power pack is inside this or any laptop ) reason i say this..... and please give your input while i take time to go through the above testing.. This unit was plugged into a battery backup ( APC unit ) Well there was also a DESKTOP and an EXTERNAL hard drive plugged into it as well. I unplugged the desktop and the external but not without turning them out first. I cleaned out the desktop pluged the exteranl into another computer while the desktop was being cleaned ( dust ) but when all was said and done i found out a few things A) the external drive wont be recognized immediately by any other computers B) Once it is recognized by another machine, i cant get files off of it ( freezes the window ) C) the desktop was all wrapped up and done so i went to plug it in and turn it on. It doesnt booth up completely. Problem with the desktop ( only 7 months old at most ) is either M-Board Processor Power Pack Its certainly doesn't strike me as a coincidence that 3 electronic devices now fail or have problems when the only commonality was this batter backup unit. Ok so theres the rest of the story Reply with any thoughts youd like to but im not looking for advice on the other two units. Just the laptop is fine.

Edited by Liqid, 16 September 2009 - 11:13 AM.

[8210GUY]

I can certainly see why your thinking that, but AFAIK APC is a very good make, but nothing is infallible, I suspect the other devices are coincidence, I appreciate your not asking advice on the other devices (but feel free if you do want to), but here is what I suspect is\has happening\happened, the other PC, by the fact it has been cleaned means there is a high probability that something has become loose, maybe a card or a cable, it's very easily done, and there are also times where they simply spit the dummy because they don't like being touched\moved. The external drive is slightly different, by removing it without using Safely Remove, it can corrupt the data, when this happens many (if not all) systems will refuse to accept the drive until it's been formatted, I appreciate they usually say they are plug and play, hot swappable etc, but using Safely Remove is the safer way to remove them. Now I don't use UPS (can't afford one lol), but some come with software, if yours came with software check and see if it has any log's, look for any errors recorded by it, if there are then your thought too a dodgy UPS would seem founded, if there is nothing then it's probably working fine, but if it has any diagnostic tests it can run then run those and see what comes back. But I guess the fastest way to check the UPS is plug the item(s) in without using that, if they fire up without issue then again your thoughts have some foundation, but you are there, so you are best placed to follow your gut so to speak, but as you say theres a lot of coincidence coming in, the original query screams of a fried motherboard, and everything we have tried all tends to support this, but there is no test to prove this 100%, it is possibly the hardest component to diagnose, and often requires a leap of faith. There is a further possibility though, this one combines your gut instinct, and the facts as we know them, maybe the UPS has gone bad, and in doing so is the cause of the possible fried motherboard, and the other components as well, but unless it has any diagnostic or error\incident recorded in logs or something, the only way to check it would be via a qualified person in that field, they can then test it and tell you for sure if it's good or bad, unfortunately there will probably be a charge for this, but you would know for certain about that component at least, what do you think about these thoughts ?

[Liqid]

un fortunatly from what i have been reading about windows XP machines it seems XP runs on TOP of DOS so theres no way to get specifically into DOS command prompts unless i try and start windows via the screen of Start normally start in safe mode start in safe with networking and so on i would need to select "Safe Mode with Command Prompt" that means i would need to start windows into SAFE MODE and then use the START | RUN | CMD steps and commands but since i cant get into any part of windows... that isnt going to work im still loooking for a way to start in DOS but i think im out of luck on that part as a result i again am running the FLASH BIOS cd that i burned and its been running for a while... i really dont think its doing anything at all because A) Drive is running CD light is blinking rapidly randomly as if its being read C) The fan is on to keep it cool so that kinda tells me the M-Board works i guess because the Machine knows enough to turn the fan on which is connected to the MBoard If it were the Processor lets say from a power surge then i would still experiance the same issues no? And as a result of the processor not working, the rest of the unit would think certain components arent working correctly since its not telling them to function, turn on, run their start up tests see my point?

[Liqid]

I can certainly see why your thinking that, but AFAIK APC is a very good make, but nothing is infallible, I suspect the other devices are coincidence, I appreciate your not asking advice on the other devices (but feel free if you do want to), but here is what I suspect is\has happening\happened, the other PC, by the fact it has been cleaned means there is a high probability that something has become loose, maybe a card or a cable, it's very easily done, and there are also times where they simply spit the dummy because they don't like being touched\moved.
The external drive is slightly different, by removing it without using Safely Remove, it can corrupt the data, when this happens many (if not all) systems will refuse to accept the drive until it's been formatted, I appreciate they usually say they are plug and play, hot swappable etc, but using Safely Remove is the safer way to remove them.

Now I don't use UPS (can't afford one lol), but some come with software, if yours came with software check and see if it has any log's, look for any errors recorded by it, if there are then your thought too a dodgy UPS would seem founded, if there is nothing then it's probably working fine, but if it has any diagnostic tests it can run then run those and see what comes back.
But I guess the fastest way to check the UPS is plug the item(s) in without using that, if they fire up without issue then again your thoughts have some foundation, but you are there, so you are best placed to follow your gut so to speak, but as you say theres a lot of coincidence coming in, the original query screams of a fried motherboard, and everything we have tried all tends to support this, but there is no test to prove this 100%, it is possibly the hardest component to diagnose, and often requires a leap of faith.

There is a further possibility though, this one combines your gut instinct, and the facts as we know them, maybe the UPS has gone bad, and in doing so is the cause of the possible fried motherboard, and the other components as well, but unless it has any diagnostic or error\incident recorded in logs or something, the only way to check it would be via a qualified person in that field, they can then test it and tell you for sure if it's good or bad, unfortunately there will probably be a charge for this, but you would know for certain about that component at least, what do you think about these thoughts ?

all seems plausable but only the llmit of understanding these components ( including the UPS unit ) that i have knowledge of.
However it still all points to one main issue here

it seems to me we have a fried mother board.

UPS logs? nope sorry, there arent any. It was ONLY being used as a power backup.
At this point im waiting for this technicial to get here to fix the DESKTOP ( not discussed here )
and he is bringing with him 3 components.
Board
PRocessor
Pwr-Pack
if he deduces the board is fried
im going to go with thinking that is the issue with the laptop as well

Unfortunately there was something else i was going to go into and im sure it pertained to the tech being here tomorrow but i forgot what it was
brain fried like the PC right now


the BIOS flash CD is still running and its probably over an hour now so im going to CTRL+ALT+DEL to stop it
and just let it sit

[8210GUY]

I know what you mean lol, many a time I've sat banging my head on a brick wall trying to sort such things, I wish I had something more substantial to prove things one way or the other, but unfortunately there is no such thing with some components, all we can do is prove each component in turn that is possible for us too and whatever is left has to be the weak spot, and so everything points to the motherboard, but of course that doesn't mean the UPS couldn't of failed which took the board out at the same time, so it could be multiple failures, and that just makes things even harder to diagnose. I suggest asking the tech if they can check the UPS, if they can then at least it removes 1 piece of hardware from the equation. As to the flash, it is almost certain it is not working, trying it the way that is currently being tried is a waste of time, but you are part right about dos, but in the link I gave above, you can get a boot disk, that will allow you to boot into dos, once there you can swap the disk, if you think you can follow the guide from the boot disk site you may be able to incorporate the flash utility into the boot disk as I tried to explain above, albeit very badly, but there comes a time when without spare parts to try diagnosing can be an impossible task, I hope the tech can shed some light on the situation for you, good luck.

[Liqid]

tech was here worked on issue with my other computer ( not discussed here) It was a desktop that failed around the same time as this laptop Simply put, he arrived with stuff for the DESKTOP A) A mother board New Processor C) New Power Pack well we worked it all the way down to the mother board. Easy enough to find the problem Power pack was working fine because all fans and moving parts would go ON and work as they should Processor was working fine too because.... as the brain... it was still telling everything the TIME, daylight savings, and retained whatever memory paths and such Only thing left was the mother board now we all know theres no real electronic TEST for it at home per say So we took it completely OUT, detaching everything from it picked it up to our noses and ......SNIFFFFFFFFFFFfffff yep the distinct smell of an electrical short ( burning plastic and hot metal or aluminum ) there was the problem. So we decided the laptop cant get in any worse shape so we decided to do the same to that took it apart, smelled the board and sure enough..... there is the same deal I thank you all for all of your diligent help on this one but im sorry to say, no matter WHAT we would have come up with...... there no fixing what fire destroys i guess

[8210GUY]

I wish I could say I was surprised, but I can't, every single thing we were trying just added to the evidence the board was at fault, and as I said prior, and you above, there is no test for this, not for the vast majority anyway, it's always a case of swapping boards\parts and see what happens, but yes electrical burning is extremely distinct, smelt once, you'll never forget it.. At least there is now a confirmed diagnosis, unfortunate as the news is, but you know where you stand if nothing more, BUT, I do have a major fear ATM, and I can't urge strongly enough about this incase history repeats itself, more so with a new system. Now would I be right in thinking that ALL these units were powered from the same source ? More so if the failures all happened at about the same time ? Basically, for a board to get fried, it's usually an indicator of a power surge\spike, if this is so that means the power source needs to be checked, you mentioned above your fear about the UPS being at fault, logically it shouldn't, because thats what it is there to avoid, and as I said above I've heard that is a good make (wish I could afford one lol), but something is not right somewhere. You mention the power supply being OK because the fans spin etc, unfortunately this is not true, many a failing PSU can spin a systems fans etc, the ONLY way to prove a PSU is testing it, the fact one turns on and things move does not mean it is a good PSU, I don't suggest yours is bad (but the tech should of checked it properly with a meter), but I raise awareness to hopefully avoid history repeating itself, because the PSU is on the wrong side of the UPS for it to protect the system, so the UPS could be working perfectly, and stopping surges etc from the mains without fail, BUT, this doesn't mean the PSU can't spike itself, which the UPS is powerless to stop. The PSU is often the most under rated component of a persons system, I see no end of people paying over £400 for a video card without batting an eyelash, but when it comes to a PSU they wont go over £30, absolute craziness, you wouldn't put an old bangers engine in a formula 1 car and expect it to manage, so it's no surprise to see them moaning about a fried system at some future point, so basically NEVER skimp on power, it is a false economy, buy the best most powerful one you can, and it will take care of your needs with ease, and will probably see you through several upgrades without trouble, unlike those who buy just enough power to feed the current need. I'm glad you at least have a confirmed diagnosis now, I'm just sorry it wasn't better news, but I hope these warnings and info help you avoid any similar events in the future, good luck anyway.

[Liqid]

thanks for your help GUY

when you get up in the morning. goto the fridge, there youll find a beer i left for your efforts haaahaah