17 replies to this topic

[utent]

Hi everyone,

I'm Italian so sorry for my bad english, hope y'all understand. I have a Dell Dimension 8400. I changed the CPU fan Delta P2780 of 35Watt and 60db with a Noctua Nf-B9 of 1,5Watt and 17db. I'm very happy about this change. I couldn't connect it to the Motherboard because it as a prioritary's 5 pins coonector and the Noctua is a normal 3 pins So I connected it to a molex of the psu.

The problem is that every time I boot the pc I heard 2 beep and the message "CPU FAN ERROR PRESS F1.."
I rod: http://forums.whatth...showtopic=91460 and they said:

"1) Ignore it and press F1 to continue the boot process;" That is what I want to stop doing.
"2) If you want to suppress the "Press F1 to continue. Press F2 to enter set up." message after the "Alert! Previous fan failure" message then press F2 to enter set up, scroll down and highlight "Report Keyboard Errors" and press the spacebar to change this setting from "Report" to "Do Not Report". After applying this change, the failure message will briefly appear and the boot will continue without any operator intervention required;" I tried with no resulte.
"3) Ground the tachometer wire by connecting the White-Yellow(Tachometer) wires to the Black-Black(Ground) wires on the terminal connector block. This will disable CPU fan speed sensing so the system will no longer warn of a fan failure and no longer display the "Alert! Previous fan failure" message - this will now only appear if the fan connector becomes disconnected from the fan header on the motherboard." I tried but the Motherboard see that the fan is going at 0rpm and keep saying that message.

Please don't suggest me to put the original Delta because I'm happy about the Noctua

[Digerati]

Hi utent and Welcome to WTT.

Please don't suggest me to put the original Delta because I'm happy about the Noctua

Well, I know you don't want to do this but that is exactly what you should do - at least until you get a good solution in place.

Sadly, Dell has a notorious history of using proprietary parts to force users to buy replacement parts only from Dell - at a significantly higher cost, of course.

The best solution is to find an adapter and that may not be easy. There seems to be plenty of 3 to 4 but I cannot find any 3 to 5. Is the 5th pin empty? If so, you may be able to use a 3-pin to 4-pin adapter.

Alternatively, you can enter your BIOS Setup Menu and disable the fan detector sensor settings so you don't get yelled at. They should be located under Power Management, often as Low Power Mode and Suspend Mode. But note then you will not get any warnings if your fan stops.

This isn't a keyboard failure so it is no wonder that did not help.

[utent]

Thanks for your answere!

Well, I know you don't want to do this but that is exactly what you should do - at least until you get a good solution in place.

I prefer to press F1 every time

The best solution is to find an adapter and that may not be easy. There seems to be plenty of 3 to 4 but I cannot find any 3 to 5. Is the 5th pin empty? If so, you may be able to use a 3-pin to 4-pin adapter.

I uploaded some pics. The 5th pin is empty. But I'm sure I can't find an adapter and the 3-pin to 4-pin adapter doesn't fit the Motherboard

Alternatively, you can enter your BIOS Setup Menu and disable the fan detector sensor settings so you don't get yelled at.

I can't find the fan detector sensor settings in my BIOS as you can see in the pics.

They should be located under Power Management, often as Low Power Mode and Suspend Mode. But note then you will not get any warnings if your fan stops.

The computer will shut down if the temperature is too high and I'll now that the fan stops.

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[Digerati]

The computer will shut down if the temperature is too high and I'll now that the fan stops.

It is supposed to shutdown when it gets too high. That's a good thing and you should not disable that. But it should not get so high, it needs to shutdown. That's a bad thing. Look on every page in the BIOS Setup Menu, making sure you scroll all the way up and down the list in the left side panel. There is often a place (maybe in "PC Health" or something similar) where you can change that CPU temperature setting for over-heat shutdowns (I normally set mine to 70°C). Typically near there is where you can disable fan sensor (fan missing) warnings. Sadly, there is no industry standard for BIOS Menus option layout or wording. So you need to look at every page. The CPU fan sensor will be set to "enabled" or "on" (or something similar) and you will need to set it to "disable" or "off" or something similar - that's if Dell provided that option.

But I'm sure I can't find an adapter

You sure? Out of the millions and millions of non-standard, proprietary Dell computers sold over many years, surely you are not the only user with this problem. There are lots of 3-pin to 4-pin fan adapters out there. You just need to figure out the configuration (shape, pins and genders) you need. Or buy a compatible fan!

Nevertheless, you don't want your CPU overheating as it can permanently damage the CPU - an expensive repair, if a replacement CPU can be found. So I would still recommend remounting the OEM heatsink fan assembly (with a new, properly applied layer of TIM, of course). Then determine what you need to properly resolve this issue (compatible fan or adapter) so you can do this upgrade the right way. Bypassing safety measures is never a good idea.

Edited by Digerati, 18 January 2013 - 09:42 AM.

[utent]

That's a bad thing. Look on every page in the BIOS Setup Menu, making sure you scroll all the way up and down the list in the left side panel. There is often a place (maybe in "PC Health" or something similar) where you can change that CPU temperature setting for over-heat shutdowns (I normally set mine to 70°C). Typically near there is where you can disable fan sensor (fan missing) warnings. Sadly, there is no industry standard for BIOS Menus option layout or wording. So you need to look at every page. The CPU fan sensor will be set to "enabled" or "on" (or something similar) and you will need to set it to "disable" or "off" or something similar - that's if Dell provided that option.

I uploaded other pictures because I can't find anything you said in the left side panel of my BIOS. Can you look at the pictures and see if you find what you wrote before?

You sure? Out of the millions and millions of non-standard, proprietary Dell computers sold over many years, surely you are not the only user with this problem. There are lots of 3-pin to 4-pin fan adapters out there. You just need to figure out the configuration (shape, pins and genders) you need. Or buy a compatible fan!

I don't get the difference between connecting the Noctua to a molex 4-pin on the psu and finding a adaptor for my motherboard. The Noctua is not PWM so it will go anyway to 12V maximum speed. The CFU of the Noctua at 12V is the same of the old Delta so it works fine. The only problem is that the motherboard doesn't fill the fan because it is on the PSU and it says the error. It I can find a way to not receive that error everything would work fine.

Nevertheless, you don't want your CPU overheating as it can permanently damage the CPU - an expensive repair, if a replacement CPU can be found. So I would still recommend remounting the OEM heatsink fan assembly (with a new, properly applied layer of TIM, of course). Then determine what you need to properly resolve this issue (compatible fan or adapter) so you can do this upgrade the right way. Bypassing safety measures is never a good idea.

The OEM fan was not on the OEM heatsink as you can see here [url="http://c.fixya.net/f...s/FE54BE0.jpg"] it is just close to it.

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[Digerati]

The OEM fan was not on the OEM heatsink

Note I said, "OEM heatsink fan assembly". In my opinion, the configuration is not important. Ensuring your CPU does not over heat is.

[utent]

Note I said, "OEM heatsink fan assembly"

You're right, I'm sorry. I didn't know what "assembly" means till now.

In my opinion, the configuration is not important. Ensuring your CPU does not over heat is.

I will thanks. We still haven't solve the error message problem. Maybe I'll go for pressing F1 everytime..

[Digerati]

We still haven't solve the error message problem.

As I noted earlier, you just need to figure out the configuration (shape, pins and genders) you need. Or buy a compatible fan! Or go back to the original setup where the fan is properly detected.

Please understand what you are trying to do should be easy so I understand your frustration. Normally, upgrading your CPU cooler is very easy. But Dell decided not to abide by standard industry practices and instead, used proprietary parts and modifications in their builds leaving consumers very limited, if any options. Perhaps in the hopes users buy new computers sooner. Understand these tactics are a big reason for the HUGE success of ASUS, Newegg, Gigabyte, MSI, Antec and the other big names in the "build it yourself" computer world. They all adhere to the ATX Form Factor Standard and common practices to ensure "interoperability". I avoid factory made PCs. Unfortunately, notebooks are even more proprietary so user upgrade options are even more restricted. But that's another discussion.

Why are you trying to replace the cooler in the first place? Were you having heat problems?

Heat issues can often be resolved by upgrading the case cooling as it is the case's responsibility to provide enough cool air flow through the case. This assumes the interior is clean of heat trapping dust. The CPU cooler only needs to toss the CPU's heat into that flow.

[utent]

Why are you trying to replace the cooler in the first place? Were you having heat problems?

Because the Delta fan was noisy (60db) and not efficient (40Watt). In Italy electricity is very expensive! The Noctua is 17,9db and 1,5Watt.

Heat issues can often be resolved by upgrading the case cooling as it is the case's responsibility to provide enough cool air flow through the case. This assumes the interior is clean of heat trapping dust. The CPU cooler only needs to toss the CPU's heat into that flow.

Thanks for this advice. The interior of the case is clean.

[Digerati]

and not efficient (40Watt)

Sorry but there is no way that is correct. That had to be a documentation error, or 40w referred to something else. I don't recall EVER seeing a single CPU fan pull more than 5 watts. That most likely was 4W and even that is high. And note that is the maximum, and only occurs when the fan motor first starts to spin up, or when running at full speed.

Note the following standard electronics formula for determining power in a DC circuit:

P = IE (power = current in amperes x voltage)
40w = I x 12V
3.33 Amperes = I

There's no way a CPU fan draws 3.33 Amps of current. It would likely burn up the wires, or at least cause the power supply to shut down. That 40W likely referred to the cooling power, not current demand. Note the Thermaltake CPU Cooler with "Two" 120mm Fans has a cooling power of 220W, but a current rating of .5A.

P = IE
P = .5A x 12V
P = 6 Watts

So if those two large 120mm fans only draw 6 watts together, there's no way your OEM and much smaller single fan draws more. So sadly, you likely burned more in transportation costs and in VAT/Sales Tax than you will ever save in electricity costs.

But certainly, low noise is something I can appreciate and no doubt those older OEM coolers made some noise.

I am glad you keep the case interior clean. That is so important, and too often overlooked, or ignored.

Edited by Digerati, 19 January 2013 - 12:21 PM.
Deleted confusing comment.

[utent]

There's no way a CPU fan draws 3.33 Amps of current. It would likely burn up the wires, or at least cause the power supply to shut down.

It's a 2.5 Amps of current (check the pic). I know it was not always at 12V but I'm sure that the new Noctua is more efficient!

But certainly, low noise is something I can appreciate and no doubt those older OEM coolers made some noise.

You got the point!

I am glad you keep the case interior clean. That is so important, and too often overlooked, or ignored.

Thanks I care about it.

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Edited by Digerati, 19 January 2013 - 12:20 PM.
Removed confusion caused by me.

[Digerati]

Oops! Sorry! I was working another post on graphics and confused the threads. I will blame it on a lack of coffee! Sorry for the confusion and have removed the confusing comments.

I appreciate the image of the fan hub showing 2.5A, but I firmly believe that is wrong, and the source of the confusion over wattage. I suspect it should be.25A. To be sure I was not way off base, I pulled 8 fans from my parts bins, 40mm, 80mm, 120mm, and a 200mm Fatboy fan. Note it has a .3A current rating.

[terry1966]

been away for a while but just had to make a comment. nope the 2.5amp draw isn't wrong. delta fans are beasts, and highly rated by overclockers for keeping hardware cool, but with great cooling power comes the big disadvantage of noise. they are so powerful you can find videos of them on utube flying through the air when they are turned on.

[Digerati]

I stand corrected then. I am aware of case fans drawing 40 - 50W of power - fans connected directly to the PSU. But I have not seen any OEM CPU fans (which typically connect via a motherboard connection) with such current demands.

In researching this further, sadly, the ATX Form Factor Standard does not specify the current minimums for motherboard fan headers and I am finding a wide range of recommendations - from no limits down to .5A.

In looking at some of the popular 3rd party cooler alternatives, like this TT with two 130mm fans draws just .5A or 6W.

So I would caution powering a 40W fan from a motherboard header. This is primarily because motherboard designers design motherboards with OEM fans in mind. I suspect high powered fans may not be a problem with high-end enthusiasts boards, but I would avoid connecting such fans to motherboard headers, unless I knew the capabilities - and good luck finding those specs.

[terry1966]

i think they are rated for max 12v 3amp draw, but like you said always best to check with the motherboads manual/manufacturer first. i've never burned out any fan headers but i have read of at least one case where they did by splicing more than 1 fan to a single header.