56 replies to this topic

[somescarygirl]

I want to build a new computer to mostly do 3d rendering with Maya. I have a pretty nice laptop that runs xp tablet so I was thinking about having this one run linux like my old desktop though I'm not sure if photoshop or after effects can be run which is pretty important. I've already bought them for windows so unless the version of cs4 I have can be run on linux I might have to run windows. I only have about $800 to spend at the moment, but plan on upgrading more after I finish my next job with more extra ram and a nice video card ect. Any suggestions would be a great help.

[jephree]

Hello somescarygirl,

As to the hardware question: what exactly do you need to start with?

You mention an old desktop. Is there anything there you can reuse?

Can you use that case or do you need a new case? What about the Power Supply Unit? Hard drives? RAM? etc.

If you intend to use any old parts can you ID that old system?

Or are you wanting to start from scratch? New case and so on etc.

What about a monitor and keyboard/mouse etc. Do you already have these items?

Anyway if we know the above we can get a better idea how to spread the budget.

For 3D use you will find your graphics card to be the most important element.

As you say RAM is always upgradeable in the future but I would start with the best graphics card you can afford and build a support system for that card. Motherboard; CPU; PSU.

Hard drives are also easily upgradable in the future.

[somescarygirl]

My old desktop is in storage in NY while I'm in Portland so I won't be using any parts from that. I have a monitor, mouse, and keyboard , but I need everything else (case, power supply, ect). I've heard a workstation video card would be better over a card more geared towards gaming, but I don't know how much of a price difference there is between those. I've been looking at processors and the new intel i7s seems really nice but are they worth the price difference and even if I go with a quad core I would like to have the option of upgrading further down the line. Also, what is the difference between 32 and 64 bit and would I need to get 64 bit versions of all my programs?

[jephree]

If Maya is a main purpose of this computer we can use their resources in helping to but a machine together:

Autodesk Maya:

http://usa.autodesk....p;siteID=123112

System Requirements:

http://usa.autodesk....x...&id=7639522

Recommended hardware:

http://usa.autodesk....?...&id=9683256

What version do you have? They do make both a 32 and 64 bit version. If you currently have the 32 bit version then unless you are going to get a new version of Maya I would stick with a 32 bit OS. I was going to address the OS issue later but I will just briefly suggest a temporary OS until Windows 7 is released (most likely in the fall).

Maya also has numbered versions beside the 32/64 designation. Which version is yours?

When I help people build online I use the Newegg web site as it offers many filters to pin down particular components by specs and price etc. I, myself, also buy from Newegg quite often but here I just use their web site to help us look at options.

http://www.newegg.com/

As I get some more time this evening I will start to put together some parts and then post back.

We can then start to discuss options and alternatives once we have a starting point.

[somescarygirl]

As much as I like linux it can't run everything I need so I'll probably fall back to xp until windows 7 comes out. I had vista on a computer at work and have no interest in using it for myself at all hehe. I have Autodesk® Maya® 2008 200708022245-704165 (i'm guessing thats the numbers you were talking about). I'm glad you suggested newegg since thats where I was planning on searching. I bought most of the parts to my last computer there 6-7 years ago and have been a fan since.

[somescarygirl]

What exactly is the difference between a 32 bit and a 64 bit os btw?

[jephree]

Here is the Microsoft Vista reply to your 64/32 question:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/946765

Just by the way Windows 7 will also be similar to Vista in its choice of 32/64.

Here is a different page on the issue:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=440

Of course a lot more can be found via Google.

I have never run Vista in any form but I do run XP64 as well as 32. I put 64 on my strictly high end gaming machine. In hindsight I would not do it again. At least not the XP version which was strictly speaking released as a server OS.

64 bit allows for over 4GB of RAM but there is little need for more RAM outside of servers or very high end professional graphics processing. I'd say 80% of software is still written for 32 bit so it simply goes into the x86 (32 bit) program file. All 64 bit OS have both a 64 as well as 32 bit program file.

I find 64 bit XP slower than 32 for typical desktop tasks. If an application is written for it then it might be preferable. For example as noted Maya does have a 64 bit version.

Anyway I hope that helps. I will return after a bit of time at Newegg.

[jephree]

I will start with a case. I choose Mid-Tower then I choose $25 - $50. What is important here is fans and good air flow. No frills needed and at our budget we need to save for more important items.

Here is the overall selection under those filters:

http://www.newegg.co...st....425 - $50

I picked this one:

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811119104

$49.99

Side and rear 120mm fans. Front panel USB and audio. The basics.

Next I move to the Power Supply but this also relates to just how much power you need so we need to consider your graphics card as well as the number of drives etc. For upgrading I always like a PSU that might be just a bit more than I think I need in terms of wattage. There are also distinctions in terms of rails etc and if this interests you we can discuss that further. For the current beta system I will suggest a PSU between 500 and 600 watts.

http://www.newegg.co...amp;name=ATX12V

My next filter is $50 - $75

http://www.newegg.co...st....450 - $75

Seeing some options it reminds me at this point about SLi or CrossFire ready PSU's. On our budget multiple graphics cards are not in the picture nor needed for you purposes but if you think you might ever want to upgrade to multiple graphics card you need a PSU listed as SLi or CrossFire ready.

I am choosing this one:

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817182030

$59.99 (so now we are at $109.98 case + PSU)

I will now move to the motherboard but my own tendency here is to consider the graphics card as the most important element in any graphics or gaming system so I will look for a board that does it's best to support my graphics ability. Again you will have options here of SLi or CrossFire or not. As I don't anticipate that as an option for us I will look at boards with single PCI_E x16 slots and not multiple unless I see a deal. I am also considering the RAM options of DDR2 or DDR3 as well of course our CPU options. In fact we may need to cross reference CPU prices with the corresponding socket type of the motherboards we consider.

Good place to say I am very particular to Intel and NVIDIA so I am not looking at AMD or ATI. You of course might have a different preference here.

My first filter is Intel between $100 and $200 plus socket 775:

http://www.newegg.co.....;name=LGA 775

I have added filters for 2 PCI_E x16 slots for upgrading to SLi plus I opted for the highest FSB options and now I am choosing DDR type:

http://www.newegg.co...e=4%u00d7240pin

I know if I go DDR3 the RAM is going to nearly double in price so we ask : "is it worth it for our needs"? My first response is no so I choose DDR2 1200:

http://www.newegg.co.....ame=DDR2 1200

Here the main differences are the chipsets. Again we can compare these in more detail later if needed. We also note that many dual PCI_E boards reduce the second slot to x8 rather than 2 x16 so I apply the filter for 2 x16 which leaves us with two boards:

http://www.newegg.co...amp;srchInDesc=

I am choosing this one:

http://www.newegg.co...82E16813131294R

$129.99 (which brings us to $239.97)

We move to a CPU: I set filters to apply to our board choice and again I am only looking at Intel:

http://www.newegg.co...amp;srchInDesc=

Choice of two and I choose:

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819115207

$189.99 (bringing us to $429.96)

So we want some RAM which I initially filter for 4 x 1GB packages or 4GB total:

http://www.newegg.co...amp;srchInDesc=

I have no problem with Kingston and this is a good price so I choose:

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820134596

$59.99 (total: $489.95)

On to graphics card: NVIDIA PCI_E x16 I am filtering at 512MB memory and between $100 and $200:

http://www.newegg.co...amp;srchInDesc=

I am choosing this:

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814130339

$139.99 (total = $629.94)

So you need a hard drive and a DVD drive. Hard drives: I am going Seagate SATA 3.0 @ 7200 RPM 500GB +:

http://www.newegg.co...amp;srchInDesc=

I am going here for perpendicular recording:

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16822148295

$129.99 (total = $759.93)

DVD: http://www.newegg.co...=CD-DVD-Burners

Quick pick: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16827129023

$24.99

Total for our beta: $784.92


So let me know what you think and any questions you might have.

[somescarygirl]

What is the difference between the two asus mother boards exactly? I took a look at them and compared them but I don't get what all the specifics mean.

When reading reviews on the cpu some said the heatsink isn't very good and one person specifically mentioned it getting hot when doing a high poly render. Also, what is the difference between this an one of the i7s? I want to know how much extra it would be and the pros/cons over the quad.

For ram wouldn't it be better to get 2 x 2 gb that can run in dual channel? Thats what friends told me before when I upgraded the ram on my laptop at least.

And for the dvd drive one would light scribe would be nice. I'm an artist and being able to print a little something on the front is nicer than the typical sharpie written name on cd/dvds with pictures of my work on it for galleries and such. Would this work just fine or do you have a better suggestion? http://www.newegg.co...N82E16827151173

[somescarygirl]

One of my friends did mention running 4 x 1gb sticks in quad channel? What is the difference between all of these things?

[somescarygirl]

I also have a 5.1 surround sound speaker set are either of the two motherboards going to work with that or would I need a sound card?

[somescarygirl]

I just noticed the mother board is an open box item. What aren't I getting that I normally would with a retail version?

[jephree]

I will reply in reverse order of your questions:

I just noticed the mother board is an open box item. What aren't I getting that I normally would with a retail version?

Newegg: "The pictures shown are from the NEW version of this item. If you purchase this Open box product you will receive an OEM BAREBONE, meaning it is just the item itself. Accessory items are NOT INCLUDED with Open box products. Accessories are shown in the pictures so that customers will know what is missing from the item. "

http://www.newegg.co.....l Motherboard

Sorry I did not notice this and will change my choice here. OEM is fine for most components but not for a motherboard in my opinion. In this instance you miss all the cables and an add-on sound card plus the rear case plate etc. so in my new list I will suggest a different board.

I also have a 5.1 surround sound speaker set are either of the two motherboards going to work with that or would I need a sound card?

Those boards (full box) included an add-on sound card but in any case no it is not necessary.

For ram wouldn't it be better to get 2 x 2 gb that can run in dual channel? Thats what friends told me before when I upgraded the ram on my laptop at least.

One of my friends did mention running 4 x 1gb sticks in quad channel? What is the difference between all of these things?

There is no quad channel per se. If you ran 4 x 1GB in 4 slots of a Dual Channel board you would be running what some might refer to as quad channel. On further review your comment about 2 x 2GB performing better than 4 x 1GB is correct simply due to the mechanical advantage of only seeking two locations rather than four. I jumped on that Kingston package simply as it was a great price. In the revision I will seek new RAM.

And for the dvd drive one would light scribe would be nice. I'm an artist and being able to print a little something on the front is nicer than the typical sharpie written name on cd/dvds with pictures of my work on it for galleries and such. Would this work just fine or do you have a better suggestion? http://www.newegg.co...N82E16827151173

That is very fine. My original choice was just a quick pick. Your choice is better.

When reading reviews on the cpu some said the heatsink isn't very good and one person specifically mentioned it getting hot when doing a high poly render. Also, what is the difference between this an one of the i7s? I want to know how much extra it would be and the pros/cons over the quad.

The main difference on our budget is price. The cheapest i7 at Newegg is $279.99 or about a third of our total budget.$100 more than the Core 2 Quad I chose. The i7 also consumes more Watts and will be hotter than any Core 2. If you are not over-clocking the stock Intel fans are specifically designed to handle their processors so heat should not be an issue. The i7 Core does outperform the Core Duo but in exactly how much it varies on different tests I have seen. Here are just a couple: http://www.simhq.com...ology_111b.html and: http://www.bit-tech....45-965-review/6
I would sum up the CPU choice as to how much you want to spend on the CPU as relative to the whole system. Already I am thinking our Beta_2 is going to be a bit more than Beta_1.

The difference between the i7 socket LGA 1366 and the Core Duo LGA 775 will also affect our motherboard choice so this is a fairly critical decision before going further.

If you want the lowest priced i7: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819115202
Then we look at different boards such as: http://www.newegg.co.....;name=Core i7
The primary difference in boards besides their port offerings is their chipset. You will also note when we move to socket LGA 1366 we move to DDR3 RAM which again is going to be more expensive than DDR2 but on these boards there is no choice. This would be workable RAM with the i7: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820148261

In general I'd suggest moving from Core Duo to i7 is moving into a high end system which does not match your budget. But this is a choice you need to make before looking further at particular parts as they will depend on this decision.

[jephree]

Just some continued thoughts:

Computers are nearly as unique as individual people. I mention this mainly in regards to the heatsink comments. This depends on so many variables such as: case fans; good Thermal Interface Material installation; ambient temperatures etc.

Digerati has a great TIM article here: http://forums.whatth...ial_t95526.html

My other "after-thought" to my above post is if you choose the i7 I would say your minimum budget should be bumped to $1,000.

[somescarygirl]

For the price difference I think I'll stick with the quad core, but thanks for all the info on the i7. I was more curious than anything.