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Java questions for dough


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20 replies to this topic

#1 dangedcoyote

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 02:58 PM

hey Dough I have a question for you, what is the differance with jre5 update 11 and jre6 for windows xp home sp2? what is really better and why? You said for xp jre6 is better but I never heard of anything about it till I got poking around and found what I found. I was always instructed to go to that first link to do the most resent update. I was reading what you said in that other post about it and I thank you for that response. I thought I was there with the info but you put it well above what I did, Yet that then brought me questions and I did not know where to post it as for you spesific or if I should hit you up in am im...I know that is not always a good thing and blown off around here. Anyway I ould like to have your spin on it even if in pm mode

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#2 Doug

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 03:24 PM

It's a good question. And this Forum is a good place to ask it. :) Sun MicroSystems came up with a better JAVA product than MS's native JAVA for running ActiveX, and fought hard in Courts worldwide against MS, for the Right to produce and provide it. They won, a couple of years ago, and have become the Industry Standard, since that time. I just wish they'd put in a little extra effort on their download web-sites. Why they provide and update multiple sites remains a confusing mystery. Just doesn't make sense to me. As to the Version difference 1.5.0.11 verses 1.6.0................... again a mystery. Sun Microsystems remain "silent" on the topic, as far as my googling and research has gone. I "believe" that the information that I posted is accurate. 1.5.0.11 for older Win2000, WinME, Win98 1.6.0 for more updated Win2000, and XP ---------- I've asked elsewhere, notably in this Forum, asking the well respected Member AplusWebMaster. You can read what he had to say, here: 5th reply in the thread....... scroll down to it. Best Regards, Doug
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#3 dangedcoyote

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 03:53 PM

so in reading what all you said and he said is it now safe to jsut uninstall the jre5 ud11 or keep it and then do the download then uninstall the previous.? I am a bit confused here on this.

#4 Doug

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 05:11 PM

Either way.
I usually complete the download and save it to a location I can easily remember.
Personally I've created a Folder named C:\Tech Downloads <----- I put all my security stuff in that folder, so when Downloading JAVA (6) I would have the Download save into C:\Tech Downloads.
You can name it anything you want, like C:\Security Downloads or C:\Installation Downloads, or whatever you want.

Some people just Save to Desktop............ that's fine, but the Desktop can start getting cluttered, and then people start Deleting stuff from their Desktop and later wish they still had it.
So consider Creating a C:\Tech Downloads Folder for this kind of stuff.

Allow the Download to complete.

Log Off from the internet (close your IE or whatever browser your use.)
GoTo:
Control Panel - Add/Remove
Uninstall "all" items that have JAVA in the name, including Development kit, and Runtime, etc.

Now go to your C:\Tech Downloads and double-Click on jre-6-windows-i586.exe
Which you downloaded by selecting:
Windows Offline Installation, Multi-language jre-6-windows-i586.exe 12.56 MB

JAVA will begin installing.
JAVA may ask for permission to access the internet (depending on what Firewall you are using)
"Allow" JAVA to have access to the Internet
Follow the Onscreen Prompts to complete installation of JR2E Runtime Environment (6)

You're Done and have the updated version installed! :)
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#5 dangedcoyote

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 07:20 PM

Thanks again dough. I think I even confused myself. I was getting at the extra updates and downloads for security and all and when I typed my last msg I was not clear in my full thoughts. Now, knowing you to be the great wounderous mindreader that you are I figured once back here at my little nest I would have the perfect thing laid out before me. Alas I understand you have given your powers the day off....I had to go back and relook at some things and believe I have it all figured out now! However I must say Kudos! for giving such great detail on how I or anyone should do such a download. Thank you again.

#6 dangedcoyote

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 08:01 PM

AHHHHGGGGG! Dough, You will not believe this ...ok yes you will. I did as you said from days ago if you remember we did the chkdsk etc... then tonight I was following instructions above and what do you know I did the C:/ tech files and saved to that file. logged off ie and closed everything. went to add remove to jave clicked remove and I am getting a fatal error!!!! it wants to reinstall it or something. I dont get it says I havit installed already and I should do uninstall through add/remove----I am!!!! so anyway, I click ok and make that pop up window go away and then it acts as if it is going to uninstall when the next pops up saying Fatel error durring instalation???/ what?? :rant2: I cant be this bad off can I?? dont answer that it is retoricle!

#7 Doug

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 08:52 PM

Anything's possible with these mysterious machines. But it's usually the human factor. "Oh No!!!! It's doing exactly what I told it to do! ... Now what?" :P So to see what you might be up against, I uninstalled my own JAVA SE Runtime (6), via Add/Remove. I then went to my C:\Tech Downloads\jre-6-windows-i586.exe <---- and double-clicked Now having been there, done that, and got the teashirt, something in the back of my head told me to be patient. Sure enough, (at least on my machine) there is a "lag" before JRE SE 6 pops up the: "Windows is configuring the JRE Runtime Environment for installation" mini-window. What I remembered was that on previous occasions, I had become impatient and "double-clicked" again. Thus causing JRE - Installation to open (2) two instances of the installation. And one of them froze the machine, saying something to the effect that "another installation is active" Is it possible that something like that occurred for you? Both in Add/Remove, and/or also in Installation? Other than the above, I don't have a clue and would need more information from you about you own experience. Anything? So --- Reboot your machine and try again. __________ I'm also not sure what having done the chkdsk /f /r and possibly SFC would have to do with uninstalling or installing JRE, since you would have re-Booted between each. Would you not? Best Regards
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#8 Doug

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 09:20 PM

Again I am grateful to Sun Microsystems for making such a good product.....

But I am appalled at the casual way they tend to problems, particularly in that they feature "Help Forums', but the "helpers" are themselves people seeking help and discussing what went wrong for them.
Most Posters had 1-3 posts prior to posting assistance to others.
http://forum.java.su...e...99&tstart=0
What every happened to the old-fashioned notion of having a "Moderator" to assist and advise?

OK, enough Rant.
------

Try rebooting and using Add/Remove again.

If still possible, uninstall any JAVA Plugin, JAVA WebStart, or Development Kit first, then the oldest versions of JRE Runtime through progressively the newest, until all versions are uninstalled via Add/Remove.
________________

The "newer" versions of JAVA rely upon Windows Installer.
You may benefit from doing an MS Update prior to attacking the JRE business again.

Keep us posted, since we are all bound to learn from your unfortunate experience.

Thanks for being so easy-going and patient about this problem.
I could imagine that you had several opportunities to start pulling your hair out.
But you come through in your Forum posts, cool and collected by comparison to my worst imagination.

Thanks for that. and Keep the faith.

Best Regards
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#9 dangedcoyote

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 07:28 AM

ok as for hair well I have plenty. I wont miss the few I have pulled and as for the dog well I did not have to kick him yet I just told him to go find the people that made computers in the first place and bite them! I hope he comes home soon.... I cant really say I did reboot between the chkdsk and the other.....If the computer did not tell me too then most likely I did not......smart like that I am I work on being dumb and following to the "T" directions! no right no left and then that way I can do no more harm most times.. like you I digress.... I did do a reboot after I wrote to you about this to try that and see...it did not help... ok exactly what I did....downloaded to c: jre6, went to un install and had no luck all the info I gave you before. wrote then later gave up and went to bed...oh before that I did delete the jre6 info and thought that might help but it did not. oh yes as for bringing up the chkdsk stuff, I wanted to bring back into the forethought that this is something we worked on if it might have had something to do with it. so now with jre5 ud11 I can not uninstall it at all....I have no other java anything that I am aware of in my add/remove so I have nothing to remove. did not know if we/I could remove it manually?.?!? this is all I know to tell you if you want a screen shot of info etc...let me know and I will do what I can to help all of us out...and if ANYONE who knows what they are doing or has been in this situation beforecan help please HELP!!!!!!!!!! Thanks

#10 dangedcoyote

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 07:42 AM

ok here is some info...I went into my computer and went to the java folder found the folder for jre5 ud 11 and I see no installexe and no uninstall exe. I went to java and tried to redownload the jre5 and could not but they do say I have the latest product. well now that is not true since I dont have 6 duh!!! ok time for old school here let me find my hammer I will fix it!!! hahaha any ideas? P.S. I have looked at the forum you gave me and I fear that I do not have the expertise to do such a thing and fear I might make a bigger mistake etc....

Edited by dangedcoyote, 19 March 2007 - 08:27 AM.

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#11 Doug

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 12:29 PM

Hi Dangedcoyote,

I'm sorry you are having trouble with this situation.
Yes, the "forum link" that I offered to you contains "caotic" suggestions, that I am NOT recommending to you. It just serves as an example that some others are having similar difficulties.

JRE (both 1.5.0.11 and 1.6.0) depend upon Windows Installer 3.0
Somewhere in the mix your copy of Windows installer may have become corrupted, or you only had WindowsInstaller 2.0 on your machine.

Learn about WindowsInstaller here: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/884016

To initiate the download of WindowsInstaller click on Download the 884016 package now.

Click to "continue" to allow the "validation" process, then download and run.
You can either "save" and later install, or allow the online installation, both methods are OK.

WindowsInstaller-KB884016-v2-x86.exe 1.9 MB <---- this is the WindowsInstaller Download.
____________

Next:
Consider downloading and saving JRE 1.5.0.11, and then Re-install JRE 1.5.0.11
You should then be able to Uninstall JRE 1.5.0.11 using Controll Panel - Add/Remove

Next:
Download and Save JRE (6), from this site:
http://java.sun.com/...loads/index.jsp

Download and Save this file ---> Windows Offline Installation, Multi-language jre-6-windows-i586.exe 12.56 MB

Next:
Close all browsers and double-click on your jre-6-windows-i586.exe, where you have saved it.
Follow the online prompts (including allowing JAVA to access the Internet, and allow WindowsInstaller to access the Internet)

Keep us posted with your progress.

Best Regards
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#12 dangedcoyote

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 06:48 PM

dough Windows Installer 3.0 .....Have it double checked by downloading the old one and it said I had an even more updated one. "Next: Consider downloading and saving JRE 1.5.0.11, and then Re-install JRE 1.5.0.11 You should then be able to Uninstall JRE 1.5.0.11 using Controll Panel - Add/Remove" ------DID THIS TOO I can not download another version. I have gone to the website where they have this download and then it goes to the next page to verify the install and tells you if you have the latest edition and it tells me I do have that. java will not let me download it again -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you know about an .exe I can run from the inside of my computer to try to manipulate another install? I dont think there is one but I dont know is the key wording! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- will do with the jre6 but I need to get rid of jre5 first right? ok then I will hold off on that? I suspect I got rid of a file like the others did in that forum of chaos. I will look but I believe I discussed that problem earlier in another post with you.........but then again remember me talking about the .msi files .dll files etc when running my skndsk? I notice a correlation in the other forum of files missing and me getting rid of them or fixing them. /////////////////////////////////////////////////// any new words of advice?

#13 dangedcoyote

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 06:56 PM

ok here is a screen shot of the begining of all this:I had cleaned up some and got rid of some files then too I think it might have included some .msi and .dll etc well now I thought it would show up a little better then that!!!!geesh

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Edited by dangedcoyote, 19 March 2007 - 06:57 PM.


#14 dangedcoyote

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 07:33 PM

ok so I have found a way to redownload and save the j2se 5.0 have it on desk top and all was good reinstalled it. good. then it says something about cant reinstall etc bunch o yunk!!! well make a long story short I now have two of the buggers on my computer. BUT 1 is 281 mb and the other is 146 mb I cant get rid of the 146mb. now that I am bald fromm pulling my hair out I really wish my dog would come home too!!!!! how do you scream in computer lingo??? Ahha! I looked on my wifes computer you know the pos dell that is now really better then mine ya you know the one well her j2se was only 120 mb and I was able to uninstall it from hers.......where is my gun?

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Edited by dangedcoyote, 19 March 2007 - 07:37 PM.


#15 Doug

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Posted 19 March 2007 - 11:55 PM

From your Posts, I gather that you've been installing from the "online installation", instead of downloading the previously recommended "offline installation" for later install.

Windows Offline Installation, Multi-language jre-1_5_0_11-windows-i586-p.exe 15.80 MB <--- get this one
Windows Online Installation (typical download size is ~7.1MB), Multi-language <--- not this one
______________________

Now, go here to read up about Windows Installer Cleanup Utility:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/290301

After reading about Windows Installer Cleanup Utility, download the utility to a location on your Hard Drive that you will easily remember.

Download the Windows Installer Cleanup Utility package now. (http://download.micr...1bd/msicuu2.exe)
Back to the top


Next:
Run Windows Installer Cleanup

***[Caution: Do not apply the Utility to any files other than those indicated in the illustration below]***
Posted Image

Please Post back to this thread, if you think you have other JRE items showing in Windows Installer Cleanup Utility,.... before taking any action to apply Windows Installer Cleanup Utility to any item other than those indicated by highlight in the picture above.
_____________

Now, from reading the MS Knowledge base article linked above, you know that applying Windows Installer Cleanup Utility to an item in the list (illustration above), the "program itself" (in your case, JRE 1.5.0.11 and or JRE 1.6.0.0) you are not "uninstalling the program", rather you are removing all traces that it has been through the installation procedure, *[while leaving the actual program in place on your machine]*
Of course, it will no longer appear in Control Panel - Add/Remove - and that's just fine.

Therefore............ You will now be able to make a "new installation" of either/both from the offline installation file that you've already saved to a location that you can easily remember.

Please do so now. [install JRE 1.5.0.11 etc.]
Remember to allow the JRE to be installed into exactly the same location that it is presently installed.
_______________

By performing the above, you should now be able to use Control Panel - Add/Remove to "Uninstall" the program itself.

Please do so now. [Uninstall JRE 1.5.0.11, etc]
_____________

Once you have performed the above procedures, you can then install the desired "single instance" of JRE 1.6.0.0.

Please do so now. [install JRE 1.6.0.0]

Please post back with your progress.

Best Regards

Edited by dough, 20 March 2007 - 12:00 AM.

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