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Mecca Or Quagmire

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picking up on that hint…….. :D What is the registry? How does HjT gather it's info? What's the sequence of ops in this process?
http://searchwin2000.techtarget.com/sDefin…i212883,00.html
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In the Microsoft Windows operating systems beginning with Windows 95, the registry is a single place for keeping such information as what hardware is attached, what system options have been selected, how computer memory is set up, and what application programs are to be present when the operating system is started. The registry is somewhat similar to and a replacement for the simpler INI (initialization) and configuration files used in earlier Windows (DOS-based) systems. INI files are still supported, however, for compatibility with the 16-bit applications written for earlier systems. In general, the user updates the registry indirectly using Control Panel tools, such as TweakUI. When you install or uninstall application programs, they also update the registry. In a network environment, registry information can be kept on a server so that system policies for individuals and workgroups can be managed centrally.
iceblue You might find the "Windows Registry Guide" helpfull found here Home Software-WinGuides: http://www.winguides.com/guides.php?guide=registry Or just use the website to see same info ..lots of tweeks,, youve probaly already been there ? Ive dounloaded the compiled html help file (free one) Windows Registry Guide 2003 Size: 1.4 MB Platforms: Windows 95/98/ME/NT/2000/XP and use it But am a little leary of using its links to go online,, I assume it uses IE's security levels..But Im not sure. what do the advanced members think of it ? Lonny
QUOTE (iceblue @ Dec 23 2003, 11:12 PM)
How does HjT gather it's info?
One thing HijackThis does is read the registry keys that are used for startups. Note that the registry doesn't start anything itself, it is pure data. The operating system looks in the registry to find out what it should start. One of the keys that HijackThis looks at is HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run That key looks like this on my PC:
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[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run] "nForce Tray Options"="sstray.exe /r" "NvCplDaemon"="RUNDLL32.EXE NvQTwk,NvCplDaemon initialize" "nwiz"="nwiz.exe /install" "NeroCheck"="C:\\WINDOWS\\system32\\NeroCheck.exe" "AVG_CC"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\Grisoft\\AVG6\\avgcc32.exe /STARTUP" "Tweak UI"="RUNDLL32.EXE TWEAKUI.CPL,TweakMeUp" "Realtime Monitor"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\CA\\ETRUST~1\\realmon.exe -s" "RegProt"="c:\\program files\\regprot\\regprot.exe /start" "jv16 PT TempFileTool"="\"C:\\Program Files\\jv16 PowerTools\\Plug-Ins\\TempTool.exe\" -Startup" "THGuard"="\"C:\\Program Files\\TrojanHunter 3.7\\THGuard.exe\""
The HijackThis scan shows it this way:
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O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [nForce Tray Options] sstray.exe /r O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvCplDaemon] RUNDLL32.EXE NvQTwk,NvCplDaemon initialize O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [nwiz] nwiz.exe /install O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NeroCheck] C:\WINDOWS\system32\NeroCheck.exe O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [AVG_CC] C:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVG6\avgcc32.exe /STARTUP O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Tweak UI] RUNDLL32.EXE TWEAKUI.CPL,TweakMeUp O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Realtime Monitor] C:\PROGRA~1\CA\ETRUST~1\realmon.exe -s O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [RegProt] c:\program files\regprot\regprot.exe /start O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [jv16 PT TempFileTool] "C:\Program Files\jv16 PowerTools\Plug-Ins\TempTool.exe" -Startup O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [THGuard] "C:\Program Files\TrojanHunter 3.7\THGuard.exe"
The registry is more than just a place to store the data for making things work…it is a philosophy. It has some advantages over an OS where each program must install all the needed libraries to run (in Windows, they are called dlls)…it prevents duplication. But it also has a major disadvantage; it is easily turned into a pile of worthless data that makes everything inoperable It is one monster ini file….kind of resembling the kraken of legend. It is fragile, but yet incredibly resilient…. Ignoring special features, like protected keys, for now, it is just a list of of everything installed, and where exactly it is located, and what, if any, special settings are needed to make a particular program operate in a specific way. Problems develop when there are conflicting settings, poorly documented special functions ( no…MS would never poorly document something THAT important ), and/or installers/un-installers that just do the wrong thing…that is not a comprehensive list just a few off the top. Also, there is nobody who understands it completely…(example…..Appinit_DLLS, until recently a little used item that has major power, that for the most part had been ignored, but has major implications in that it provides a way to "hook" a dll into some very basic parts of the OS, thereby causing it to run whenever User32.dll is called/used (practically everything uses THAT one)…there are other little tidbits like that waiting around) One thing that is always "safe" to do with regedit is to read/explore the registry…nothing will happen just by reading the file. Using Regedit to explore the Registry, one soon finds out that it is broken into 2 basic parts…the part that is controlled/controls the System settings…those that are common for all users, and User settings, those that are specific to an individual user or users. Some items are duplicated in both areas, with specific User differences being recorded in that User's section. In the NT based versions of Windows (currently 2k and XP) there are more User areas than in the 9x versions and there is much more independence/isolation of those User areas. The isolation goes so far in the NT versions that one cannot easily access the User data of another user without logging in as that User. (This is the reason that malware scans should be conducted under each User profile on a machine running 2K or XP.) Removing items from the registry is where most problems develop. Often, and least problematic, is incomplete removal of all the items a program has written to the registry. This just tends to clutter things up, making the file larger and thereby slower to read. This usually doesn't impact the actual functionality of a system. The next most common problem is removing an entry that shouldn't be removed…this is where the real problems occur, depending on how much/what was removed…. Programs like HijackThis use a special area of Windows programming to gather the information. These special, defined programming functions replace the use of Regedit. This allows HJT to read the registry and display the data in a readable format. (also they allow for the manipulation of that data). Since the program is reading directly and then manipulating the the data it just read, removing offending items is usually safer than manually removing them. The same techniques are used by the dedicated killers like Spybot and AdAware, except they have their own databases of items to remove, HJT does not, it relies on manual identification.
nodsnods :thumbup: That was beautifully written prose. I never imagined the registry in terms of philosophy and poetic beauty. As a conceptual structure, the registry works for me. Microsoft needed a new approach to handling multiple user profiles on the same system. The old .INI files weren’t up to speed. The concept of a central repository became a useful one. Forgive the botannical analogy here…..The Registry to me is like a layered tree with 5 main trunks. The keys in the Registry are like branches and branchlets on the tree; each is unique and points in a slightly different direction, to the values that are like leaves. Some branches hold hundreds of thousands of branchlet keys and leaf values. HijackThis associates intimately with selected branches to gather info and manipulate data.
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Programs like HijackThis use a special area of Windows programming to gather the information. These special, defined programming functions replace the use of Regedit. This allows HJT to read the registry and display the data in a readable format. (also they allow for the manipulation of that data). Since the program is reading directly and then manipulating the data it just read, removing offending items is usually safer than manually removing them
This was the facet that sparked the interest in the connection between HjT and the ease of general registry usage. There is a leap of faith that some old time users of the registry fail to pick up on. Some see HjT as some new gizmo toy that doesn’t follow the rules of direct regedit manipulation and therefore they don’t trust it. Some just have a deep fear and loathing of the registry. This user below has obviously come face to face with the kraken of legend. :o
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“The REGISTRY - perfect companion to DLL HELL. You can study them to death, create the illusion that you are their master, and then wail in agony as over and again they assert their capricious hegemony over your life.  The ultimate registry maintenance tool?  Reinstallation. Not just the parts that have stopped working, but, eventually, everything - the OS and all your apps. Sure you can dick around with various tools and editors and often get your own way in the end, but, way too often you will get slapped by the all_or_nothing nature of the registry and its r[evil]ed tangle of tentacles. Like a forest fire that has gone underground, no matter how many flareups you have extinguished another can strike anytime anyplace.  Win2K & XP up the ante with additional twists beyond the already sufficiently twisted registry.  :rofl: The very concept of combining configuration data for hardware, OS, software, security, personal preferences all in a single file is the ultimate "all your eggs in one (very fragile) basket".. (another) fundamentally idiotic idea introduced as "Yet Another Billiant Idea" by the Redmond Ragamuffins….”
lmao, but I do feel sympathy for his feelings of rage – Microsucks does have a special talent for developing this amongst users…… :P As another user puts it: “It is very unfortunate that Microsoft has chosen to deal with the Registry and Registry editing as a "black art," leaving many people in the dark as to the real uses of all the settings in the systems. Microsoft's refusal to adequately, and publicly, supply information about the correct settings is extremely frustrating and added further mystery to registry. Certainly, more damage has and will be done because of lack of knowledge than because of too much information.” :( Sad but true. To classify the keys would have been hard enough. To explain the resultant system taxonomy in detail would be problematic at best. There must have been some serious arguments sorting out the initial organisation of the keys and sub keys. Some seem coherently grouped; others seem bizarre imho. Enough ranting…. One question arises; are there plans to extend the categories that HjT looks at to other areas of the registry? or will that be on an ‘as required’ basis as things develop..….. thanks for the terrific responses, Ice
As it is right now….."as rquired". I don't think Merijn has any plans of doing more than needs to be done….that is almost a full time jpb in and of itself. :D
MJC.
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Using Regedit to explore the Registry, one soon finds out that it is broken into 2 basic parts…the part that is controlled/controls the System settings…those that are common for all users, and User settings, those that are specific to an individual user or users. Some items are duplicated in both areas, with specific User differences being recorded in that User's section. In the NT based versions of Windows (currently 2k and XP) there are more User areas than in the 9x versions and there is much more independence/isolation of those User areas. The isolation goes so far in the NT versions that one cannot easily access the User data of another user without logging in as that User. (This is the reason that malware scans should be conducted under each User profile on a machine running 2K or XP.)
This seems to be something overlooked in all of the logs fixed here and the other forums. Just last week was my first introduction to XP (Which I hate, only because I could not find my way around. Argh.). It wasnt until I understood the seperation/isolation of all of the User areas that I was able to do anything. For instance, after running Trojan scan and HJT on that computer, (which was my aunts, and you would not believe the amount of Trojans and crapware I found.) I went to cleanup/delete some files, I thought I was pretty much finished. But, then, she wanted me to clean her master drive because it was almost full. So I started moving some stuff to the slave. Then I came across a few files that should have gotten fixed by HJT and the deletion process (That's when the understanding of the seperate areas REALLY clicked into my head). I didnt understand how the files I deleted could still be there, (in one of the other accounts), after the fix. If I remember right they were empty, but I think that demonstrates exactly what you are talking about (the seperation of user accounts). Then I started wondering if the virii/trojans could still be hiding somewhere in those other accounts, which I discounted because I sat there and watched it scan through all of the individual accounts. What I'm thinking and maybe need someone to answer for sure, is that the trojan and virus scans should find everything because they scan every file individually, but what about Spybot, HJT etc. that only scans (I am guessing here) the registry of the user account you are using. I did use the main account when doing the fixes, but does this matter. From what you say, it sounds like it may not.
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(This is the reason that malware scans should be conducted under each User profile on a machine running 2K or XP.
So a question. Why havent I seen any experts or admin ask someone to scan on all accounts if this is true (what you say, somehow :scratch: makes sense to me too) Let me know what you all think, and thanks, this was a very nice thread. Boney
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Why havent I seen any experts or admin ask someone to scan on all accounts
Good point, boneychil This weekend I was over at a friend's and installed AdAware for them. Then I tightened up some of their Internet Explorer settings, and installed IE-Spyad. Then I realized that it had to be done for each user. And it made me wonder about how some things that are cleaned up are only user specific. I agree that we should ask about other user accounts. However, this may lead to an increase in the volume of HJT logs!!! :o
When I posted to this thread, I didnt realize how old the thread was. So I just wanted to bump this ahead again and get some feedback from the experts. Boney
Basically, any files/folders stored in the Documents and Settings\ folder and any registry keys in HKey_Current_User (HKCU) need to be dealt with for each user of the machine. This includes anything to do with any program that can be configured on a per user basis including Windows Explorer and IE.

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