Randomly Freezing Windows 7 no BSOD

Hi oopedopa,

and welcome to our forums

Sorry to hear about the problems with your computer freezing but on a random basis.

There are a number of points that immediately jump out from your post, but firstly it's important to note that the logs you posted are not analysed on any of our forums other than the virus and spyware removal forum, where experts in the art of malware will be happy to help you if you post your logs over there together with a link to your topic here so they can see how events have unfolded.

Before you do this however here are the other points that jump out….

1  To run efficiently your hard drive needs an area for temporary use, so that it can download material, create temporary files and the like, the usual recommendations in this respect (they depend to a certain extent on the total hard drive space available) is that 25% of the capacity should be sufficient but it is most unwise to let it fall below to any great extent……

2 Your free space far from being 25% is less than 6%…. in short your computer is being choked to death! It can never be expected to run satisfactorily when it is almost completely full.

3 The answer is to remove some data files (photos/videos/music etc) and place them on to an external device or two, (USB external hard drives are very inexpensive these days and a brace of them can be bought for around £50)

4 In addition you could manually clear out your system to a certain extent by using the disc clean up utility in Win 7.  and also uninstall (via control panel) any old programmes that are no longer required.

5 Once you have around 25% free space available and after a few restarts your computer should have sufficient space to " breathe" again and you may find this has improved things for you.

6 Your Belarc shows an install date for Windows of July 2014… was this immediately after the motherboard was replaced??? (It's always an important step to completely reinstall Windows when a new mother board is installed…. some folks may try to avoid this step but it usually end in tears if they fail to do it.

7 Are all Windows updates installed including the Service Packs if necessary?.

8 To determine if the freezing is an operating system/driver problem or in fact hardware based, you are on the right lines diagnostically, by trying an alternative operating system…. If you boot into a live distro of Linux (don't install it, just run it in RAM) and the machine runs faultlessly then you have practically eliminated hardware as the culprit and we can focus attention on your operating system/drivers, computer settings etc., as potential suspects.

9 Using Ubuntu might be "overkill for this, but if you are happy with it then burn the .iso file to a DVD (it must be a DVD as the files are too large for a CD) and remember you must burn the .iso as an image (a plain old copy just wont work) I would be inclined to use a simpler smaller Linux distro…. Linux Puppy is good and fits well on an ordinary CD and takes a lot less time to download being only a tad over 100 Mb or so.

10 Post back if you need directions on how to boot into Puppy or Ubuntu (you will need to alter the boot priority settings in your BIOS to show the onboard CD/DVD as Priority one with onboard hard drive0 as Priority two, the rest don't matter) and restart your computer with the CD in the tray …. not forgetting of course to save your altered BIOS settings before restarting…

11 If none of these steps provide the solutions then we have some further suggestions that will help repair your operating system/drivers, but before going into those, it will be time to post your logs over in the Virus and Spyware removal forums, but please note that we will not continue with any further information in your topic here until the malware removal expert has given you the "all clear" (the malware expert's job is difficult enough as it is) and you must only accept one set of directions from one expert at a time …(other wise chaos would reign!)

Post back with extra information on each of the above points and we will advise the next steps

Regards

paws

Hi Paws,

Huge thanks indeed for these tips. I'd not realised that such a chunk of HD space was needed.. more fool me.

I have shifted about half the content (photos, videos) to extrenal drives, as you suggested.and run disk clean up. Will have to wait a day or two to see if this has improved things.

I'm not sure if the 2014 install of Win7 will have been after the new Motherboard, but I think it would have been then as the replacement was done under guarantee by the supplier. Would it have been possible for them not to do so - i.e. for the original HD installation to work with the new mother board? (I thought MS made that sort of thing impossible?)

I would be really grateful for step by step advice on how to do the Linux Puppy thing as I don't have experience instaling op systems and don't want to mess it up!

Many thanks again,

Would it have been possible for them not to do so - i.e. for the original HD installation to work with the new mother board? (I thought MS made that sort of thing impossible?)

 

Yes its possible, ( not at all desirable) but often, if it's not done then the computer could experience the same sort or similar sort of problems you have described!

Microsoft are generally relaxed about a direct replacement of a like for like motherboard, if the original fails, and will often allow (after a telecom) a non "like for like" replacement as long as its a nearest equivalent to the one that has failed.

You didn't answer on question 7 in my previous post ( about Windows updates and all service packs being totally and completely up to date…. it's a very important question!

Let us know, as well, if the new amount of fee space has helped… if you are still in trouble then we can help with Linux Puppy, but I'm worried about you saying "installing op systems….. you don't install it, just boot from the CD and it will  run quite happily in RAM and then when you close down and restart your computer Puppy will be gone and you will be back booting into Windows again.

Regards

paws

Sorry about omitting your Q7 - short answer is I was in a rush this morning and just wanted to tell you about clearing out the space. It's now got about 50% free HD space. 

Earlier this evening it crashed 'as per usual' when it wasn't doing anything after having been on but left alone all day to see what would happen.

During the day it put itself to sleep and then into hibernation and woke from hibernation on request when I came home, which was encouraging, but then crashed after about half an hour.

Yesterday, while i was still clearing out photos, it gave me the first BSOD I've seen it do…

I've just used Windows Update to check the updates and it said there were 5 available - I'm downloading them now, will apply them all and see how things go. (I hope it won't crash during the process!) 

I'll keep you posted on progress but it may be a day or two before I can get back to you. Many many thanks again for all your help

All downloads were installed OK, but the system froze just after the 'Install successful' notice came up on screen!

I also updated the Intel graphics drivers and the NVIDIA graphics drivers last night,then left the machine on after rebooting it to see if it would last the night- it didn't as when I came to it this morning it booted up from scratch.

SO I think my next step must be to try the Linux Puppy. I'll get it burned to a DVD and boot from that - I'm OK with setting the BIOS boot order, but will ask if I come up against a problem.

When running LP, are there any tests I should aim to run?

Thanks

try the Linux Puppy. I'll get it burned to a DVD

 

A CD will do fine… the size is only a tad over 100Mb

No special tests just use it as you would Windows, look at some photos, browse the Internet and see if the troubles persist…. if after a jolly good test you find that the problem is solved when using Puppy we have more 0or less ruled out hardware as a potential culprit

(apart from your hard drive…. as Puppy of course does not even need this as it will be running in RAM

Did you ever send us details of the BSOD that you experienced? I don't seem to see it in your topic??…

Regards

paws

Hi Paws,

No, sorry I didn't send the BSOD  happy to try to do so. to save me searching too hard can remind me where the data dump file would be stored in the system…

However, I can say that I've done the Lnux thing with Linux Puppy and the laptop still suffers from unexpected freezes - I've re-booted it several times, and  never managed to get far past the initial set up; so far haven't been able to wifi card (intel Centrino N-135) recognised so haven't been online with Linux Puppy.

Given that it's still freezing at random intervals when running Puppy from ram, does that confirm it's a hardware fault? If if so, is there any alternative to troubleshooting by substituting new components for old, one at a time until the culprit is found? or should I be looking at e.g. removing and re-inserting the main CPU onthe motherboard.

From what you say abopve, I guess it's not going to be the hard drive since the system isn't using the hard drive when running puppy from ram…. so I'm wondering if any one component from the avaialable list (CPU, motherboard, memory modules, wifi card, etc.) is more likely to be the culprit than any other?

Also, I've noticed (from the hardware monitor program) that the NVIDIA graphics card seems to be used quite selectively, e.g. playing a game, but not when streaming video from bbc iplayer. So, since the freezes hapen when NIVDIA card doesn't seem to be in use does that rule it our as a culprit, or could it be being used and me just not noticing it?

Thanks!

Interesting!

Are you saying that you cannot get Puppy to run at all??

Don't bother with using wifi for the net when using Puppy, just make sure you are plugged in with an Ethernet cable.

If you are experiencing the same symptoms with Puppy as you had with Windows then yes its looking like a possible hardware issue….

An easy way to check for the culprit is by a substitution, that is to say change just one component at a time for a known good working component.You need to start with the PSU as this could be the most likely suspect.

However before you do that then reseat your RAM chips (several times as by putting them in and out and then back in again it is likely to "scrape" the contacts and remove any oxidation that may be present either on the RAM's contacts or the RAM sockets themselves.

You could also try just one RAM chip in one socket and see if that changes anything….then try it in another socket…you can repeat the process using another RAM chip until you have exhausted all possible combinations, if no improvement then run Memtest86 an overnight test is called for. Here's the link:

http://www.memtest86.com/

Let us know how you get on with this preliminary work.

(You can see why taking the machine into a shop and asking for a diagnostic can often relieve you of quite a bit of cash… its a labour intensive process)

Regards

paws

Don't forget to take all appropriate personal safety and anti static precautions when working on the inside of your computer.

No, sorry I wasn't clear, Puppy booted up fine from the CD drive and installed into ram. When I said I could get 'far past the setup' I meant things like telling Puppy to use English (BG) keyboard etc.

I did have a go at trying to get the wifi to work, but will take your adivce and ue the ethernet cable apporach as that option is already recognised by Puppy.

Looks like my next steps are to more thoroughly check thepower supply and memory modules.

re. power supply, I don't have a spare readily to hand, so wonder if there's any way of directly testing the condition of the one I do have other than a multimeter across the output plug that goes intothe laptop? If not I can try to source an alternative.

Thanks again for all help with this!

Hi Paws,

Update on running memtest86 - I have tried each module in each socket - one has successfully tested each of 10 tests through to completion without error, but generally the laptop just freezes (power doesn't go off) or gives a single'beep' and powers down without warning during the testing process, 

I'm guessing this means memory modules are unlikely to be the issue, more likely the external power supply?

Thanks

Yes you could be right, if Puppy runs perfectly OK in RAM then its unlikely to be a RAM issue ( I only sent the mem test details as I was under the impression that Puppy was not running correctly…

However if Puppy does run satisfactorily with no problems then there's little point in checking the PSU… as a good long test using Puppy stresses it sufficiently (usually!) for symptoms to re appear if anything was seriously adrift with it.

You may therefore be at the point where a fresh install of Win 7 is required….. this is not a job to be underestimated, but firstly there are some more steps you can take before undertaking this, however as always make sure you have everything you may need… ie serial numbers of Windows and all your applications, all downloaded executables, CD/DVD installations discs and a complete back up including everything that's important to you on your computer… double check it includes EVERYTHING you need! and that you have several copies with at least one kept safe offsite on removable media…( I tell my customers that a back up is not a back up unless it has 3 copies at least, its verified/tested as reproducible and with each copy on separate removable media etc.

Once you are happy with all that then take a look here at this wonderful tool that may just save you a lot of work!

http://www.tweaking.com/

download the latest version Windows Repair All in One tool v 3.9.16

follow all the directions fully the ONLY steps you can skip are the virus and malware related ones, please do not follow those particular steps… if necessary we will refer you to our malware removal expert here on the forum who will be able to provide step by step directions, when all the work here has been completed.

The clean boot steps and safe mode are vitally important steps do not omit them!

Let us know when you have finished if things have improved….

Regards

paws

Hi Paws,

Thanks for the additional advice re. Win7- it will I'm sure be very useful - one day!

However, I'm not sure it'll be that day soon… nor do I think I can have expressed my self well in my last post.

Linux puppy boots into Ram OK from a CD; the laptop also boots from a CD with Memtest. However, in neither case does the laptop itself manage to stay running for very long at all - it still just freezes (typically screen goes blank and there's no response to any keyboard/mouse/trackpad inputs) and/or shuts down after a single 'beep', and it does this after having stayed on and apparently running fine without issue for anything between a minute or two and over an hour or more.

So it seems it must be hardware related, based on your earlier advice, and I'm not sure how a full re-install of Win7 at this stage would help? It also seems unlikely to be an overheating issue as the time between power on and fail/freeze is so variable, whereas I would have thought temp would rise at a reasonably consistent rate after power up…

However, on a couple of occasions when running memtest the screen has gone blank, and nothing I've done has made it come back on, but then it came back on by itself and memtest was still running so must have been churning away in the background all the time anyway - I take from this that the issue is not likely to be with the CPU or how it's seated in its socket; could the display be the issue, and if so would connecting to an external monitor help confirm this?

Incidentally, I've assumed that in the normal course of events a laptop running memtest would simply keep its screen on full time?

In case it's important to know, all the above seems to happen regardless of whether running only on external power, with no battery installed i(which I've tried in case the battery was the cause of the problem). Also, I have now managed to source a different same-spec external power source, and it has made no difference.

So, assuming that it's some other piece of hardware that's at fault, is there a basic hierarchy in which I should test the other components - cheapest first, or some other order?

Cheers

Hi Ok

Linux puppy boots into Ram OK from a CD; the laptop also boots from a CD with Memtest. However, in neither case does the laptop itself manage to stay running for very long at all - it still just freezes (typically screen goes blank and there's no response to any keyboard/mouse/trackpad inputs) and/or shuts down after a single 'beep',

 

The above is a pivotal statement…. if you cannot get Puppy to run (and you are doing it correctly!) then its likely a hardware issue.

I have re-read your posts and as its a laptop we are concerned with here your options are a little limited. the usual "order of suspicion" with laptop  hardware goes something like this;

1 RAM

2 Power circuits

3 Video chip

4 Hard drive

5 Motherboard

On most laptops, check the RAM first, make sure its correctly seated, and try first just with one RAM module in place, then try the other, eliminate the RAM sockets by using all combinations and in the workshop we would use known good compatible RAM modules substituting them for the ones that need testing.

The Power circuits and the Video chip are usually incorporated into the motherboard… and testing is sometimes possible using an electronic mobo tester (home versions are available fairly inexpensively from certain on line auction houses, but do watch for poor quality imports that may not be any good or even electrically unsafe!)

Motherboards are best replaced rather than trying to repair them, but these are expensive ranging from several hundred pounds down to around £60* or so.(*for cheaper imports via that well known auction house!)… replacement involves a complete strip down and rebuild, you should allow around 4 hours of labour for this if you have no previous experience of replacing the mobo on the particular make and model of your computer (obviously less if you are doing the same replacement in the workshop day after day!)

when replacing a mobo ( for a repair) its best to use an exact like for like replacement from the manufacturer if one is still available. If not then the nearest equivalent one should be used and you will probably need to phone Microsoft to activate your copy of Windows once you have installed Windows afresh on your newly repaired machine. Microsoft are often amenable to allowing the operating system to be re-used on a new motherboard, providing they can determine that its was replaced simply for the purpose of repair and not for example for enhanced performance or functionality. If you have a Retail copy of Windows( rather than an OEM version then you would probably not have to phone Microsoft but could activate it online.

The CPU on the motherboard is generally cooled, by a trio of methods;

1 A heatsink fitted over the CPU

2 Thermal conducting paste material (arctic silver) or the like) on the top face of the CPU

3 Fan blowing away the air dissipated via the heatsink

When the Thermal compound dries out it loses its beneficial effects… and that can cause a rapid rise in temperature sufficient for the thermal overload cutout to operate ( to prevent further damage to the components) this rise in temperature depends to a certain extent on the ambient temperature, the exact usage of the computer the cleanliness of the internal passages and vents,( when were they last cleaned?) the efficiency of the fan(s) the settings on the thermal cutout……the rise can be very rapid… less than a second, or significantly longer…

The video chip is also a component that fails, often due to excessive heat. * some laptops have design faults that make this more likely than other machines!) and could exhibit the symptoms you describe… I can provide you with a link to an application that will help test your "core temperatures" if you wish to go down that route.

 Before you spend any money I would be inclined firstly check your back ups, then use the Windows all in One repair tool and then double check by posting your logs over in the Virus and Spyware removal forum….( malicious code can do strange things, but the fact that you cannot run Linux Puppy without it freezing is usually a fairly reliable indicator of a hardware problem….

Hope this helps

Regards

paws

Paws,

Many thanks indeed for this advice, apologies for not having been back in touch sooner.

To cut a long story short, after due consideration and further double checking that all internal physical connections are OK and properly seated, and still finding the random freezes/shutdowns happen, and discussion with the supplier, I've decided to ship the laptop back to them for more thorough hardware testing than I can provide and probable motherboard replacement. Such is life.

I'd like to say however that I'm incredibly impressed and grateful to you and the Whatthetech forum for the high quality impartial advice offered! Truly one of the stars in my not always happy internet experience   - I'll certainly be back for more advice when and if needed!

Best wishes and thanks again.