Time to Upgrade; looking for a new machine

Microsoft announced recently that they will no longer support Windows XP after April 8th. My XP machine has been running since 2005. A Dell Dimension 8400, Intel Pentium 4, running XP Pro. I think it is time to upgrade…

My computer being as old as it is, I haven't shopped for a computer for a while, so I am a little out of touch with what specs are "good, better, best" for the newer operating systems and newer processors. Ultimately, I want a computer that can last as long as this one has.

Just the layout of Windows 8 has me completely turned off, so I definitely want to get something with Windows 7. I have found a few Dell XPS machines that seem to fit the bill of what I want, but I don't know if they are overkill for what I do. I do have a dual monitor set up, usually have music playing all the time, watch a lot of videos on sites like YouTube that use Adobe Flash, or watch full TV episodes, and I can have up to 10 or 12 tabs open in Chrome at one time. Knowing all that, there are three Dell XPS 8700 machines that I am looking at. All three have Windows 7 Home Premium and a 1TB hard drive. But here are their differences:

 

Machine 1: 4th Gen Intel Core i5 with 8GB Memory - $749.99
Machine 2: 4th Gen Intel Core i7 with 8GB Memory - $849.99
Macnine 3: 4th Gen Intel Core i7 with 12GB Memory - $929.99

My question is, which of these machines am I going to be most satisfied with knowing what I do, and how long I plan on keeping the computer? Is it worth it to start with 12GB RAM right off the bat? Or should I start with the 8GB and upgrade later when the price of the memory has decreased? Will the Core i5 be enough or will it get substantially laggy in future years? Any help or advice is greatly appreciated, thank you all in advance!

We need to see the spec of each before we can say for sure, good numbers mean nothing if the hardware isn't all that, but to get something to last as long as possible there are only a couple of things, the CPU, and the RAM, drives can be changed without issue really, and by the fact you aim to get the best CPU that you can afford, it follows that they would have used a reasonable motherboard, at least one would hope, another pointer is connectivity, just make sure it has enough connections for you, and a few more on top for insurance, it's not a deal breaker really, as you can create more connections, but if they come included already it's a bonus.

 

The i7 is definitely the winner for performance, and more ram is always a good thing, but as you say this can be added at a later date, BUT, you would need to know what motherboard would be in the system so you can find out what the ram limit's are for that board, you don't want to get it to find out it can't take much more than it already has, you would also be better off getting Windows 8.1 (Pro if you want\need it), because the clock is already ticking on Win 7, there should still be many years left before it ends up like xp, but if you want to use it to the same state as xp then it has to be 8.1 IMHO.

 

I never thought I would manage Win 8  when it came out, and after a mate got a new system with it on I was justified in what I thought, the learning curve is steep, that said, 8.1 when you get used to it is not that bad, you just need to get used to the corners which is where you access almost everything, worst case there is programs you can add to it to regain the menu system we are all used too, so you do have options for 8.1 if you can't get on with it, and as it's the newest release it will last much longer than Win 7 (even though it's a great OS), so get us some links and a budget and lets see what we can find for you.

The biggest thing I don't like about Windows 8 is that it looks like it belongs on a phone or tablet only, not for a laptop or a desktop, but they went ahead and loaded it on them anyway. The tile desktop (I think thats what they are called) looks toy like. But anyway, I see your point. In order to keep the computer the longest, I would have to get the newest operating system. I just don't know if I want to go through the hassle of learning a new OS. If I did, I would buy a Mac. Im really hoping the layout on Windows 8 is just a fad, and goes away with the next new WIndows. At this point, I'm pretty firm on sticking with Windows 7.

http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-8700/pd?oc=fdcwgx314w7&model_id=xps-8700

That is the link for Machine 3. I couldn't find much in the way of hardware specs on Dell's website. I even had to search the internet just to figure out how big the power supply is. I believe the motherboard has 4 slots for RAM. And I think from what I saw, the video card only has one DVI and an HDMI. Both Monitors I have are capable if DVI, but not HDMI. So on my current computer, one is on DVI, the other is on VGA. Id upgrade this on the website before I bought it, but for some reason, Dell will not allow me to customize this computer. 

Machine 2 ;http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-8700/pd?oc=fdcwgx312w7&model_id=xps-8700
Machine 1 ;http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-8700/pd?oc=fdcwgx310w7&model_id=xps-8700

My budget is $1,000. I don't want to go over that, but if I have to, I can by a little bit. 

all 3 as they stand use the same video solution so in simple everyday use i doubt you'd notice the difference between them.

like 8120GUY said more memory is better but i don't think paying $80 for an extra 4Gb (only difference i noticed) between machines 2 and 3 is worth it.

 

the price difference between machines 1 and 2 is just the extra cost of the better/faster cpu and is about right.

 

so really i think you'd be happy with 1 or 2 and if you ran them side by side, i doubt you'd notice much difference between them performance wise, i'd still get the faster i7 4770 machine 2 tho.

 

 

personally if i were buying i'd get this with a much better video solution/card than the machines your looking at. :- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883103854

 

difference is

$65 gt635 http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GT+635&id=2683

compared to

$250 gtx760. http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+760

 

win 8/8.1 is the better faster operating system, it just has a crappy user interface, but again like 8120GUY said there are ways to make it more like what your used to. eg. :-  http://www.gizmag.com/windows-81-modern-ui/29552/

 

i'm afraid if you want the best machine for your money then your going to have to go win 8.

for win 7 machines your paying an inflated price for the os so get inferior hardware for the same money.

 

i did find you a win 7 machine, tho i'd never buy it, not as good as my personal choice above. :- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883220443

The video card was one of my hangups on that Dell. It doesn't have any more capability than the Radeon X300 in my XP machine. 

Which is why I started looking at this HP http://shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/products/Desktops/HP-ENVY/F9A62AV?HP-ENVY-700-215xt-Desktop-PC-with-Windows-7 But again, it uses Windows 7.

 

So. It seems like I would be foolish to get a new machine with Windows 7, and I would be better off sucking it up and get something with Windows 8. I took a quick look at the link you posted to those setting changes on Gizmag. It seems like that would help a lot in easing the crossover into Windows 8. Would it make any difference to get Windows 8.1 over Windows 8? 

Whats the reliability on computers like Acer's compared to companies like Dell and HP? Seems like that Acer had some reviews that were less than favorable. 

i have seen only good reliability/experience with acer products, (never a desktop but laptops and other gadgets.) so would put them on a par/better than any other manufacturer like dell or hp. every manufacturer has product/hardware failures so wouldn't read to much into 1 or 2 bad reviews after all that's when people like to write one so they can complain.

 

like everything when your buying pre-built pc's tho things are a compromise, that win 7 acer pc i listed seems to have more or less the same specs as the hp you listed so there's not a lot to choose between them. personally i'd get acer over hp but that's just a personal opinion and there really is no reason to choose one manufacturer over the other except for the extra's in the pc like 8GB ram, ac wireless and of course the better graphics card in the acer.

 

 

 

It seems like I would be foolish to get a new machine with Windows 7

no i wouldn't say that, you'd get a decent machine just not quite up to what you can get when buying win 8.

win 8 has been such a "failure" that microsoft are giving manufacturers big incentives so they can offer slightly better hardware for the same price point than pc's running win 7.

 

 

The video card was one of my hangups on that Dell. It doesn't have any more capability than the Radeon X300 in my XP machine.

should add, if the radeon x300 does everything you need at the moment then buying a pc with similar graphics performance is not a draw back is it?

 

i just like a faster graphics cards in my machines if i can get it for a similar price as another pc and why i mention it so much.

the newer pc will always be better/faster anyway because of the better cpu so just as long as the video card can do what your after then it's not really a sticking point in buying a machine unless your into/thinking about playing graphic intensive games.

 

 

Would it make any difference to get Windows 8.1 over Windows 8?

no, you will get a free upgrade from win 8 to win 8.1 anyway.

I have been struggling to find the detailed spec's I wanted, because I would want to know what could be improved, and to do that you need to know the motherboard make\model, or at the least a statement saying how many slots it has, and what it's max is for the ram, I say slots because if it only has 2, then ram will be more expensive as you would have to buy 8gig sticks as a minimum, 4 slots allows the cost can be spread across the 4 slots, so 8gig sticks would be the max you would need to buy (for a 32gig system).

 

As I said above if you want the maximum life from it (wise way to go) then 8.1 is that, support will be available for longer than any preceding OS, which was what you said you wanted to achieve, I couldn't find anything better than the above, there are only 2 other options, one is to build your own system, you know exactly what you get that way, and you can buy pre-assembled motherboard set up's that come with the CPU and ram ready done for you, the other is to go for an AMD system, great workhorses, but not up to the i7 performance, hope you find something you will like.

Ok, I think I've found two machines that seem to fit what I am looking for. One that terry1966 suggested and one that I found

1.) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883220338

I was reading some things that people said on this Asus. My one concern is that people are saying it doesn't come with a Windows product key anywhere on it. Kinda strange. Amazon has a lower price on this one at $810.98.

2.) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883103854

This is the one that terry suggested earlier. Multiple saying that the computer went into sleep mode and would not come out. I'm a little leery on the reliability.

windows 8 machines don't have oem product key stickers on them and no windows pc will have them ever again from my understanding.

the sleep mode problem is a windows 8/8.1 os problem (google search it.) not a hardware problem.

 

so really just buy which ever you like the best, personally i'd get the acer.

 

I agree, the Acer has much more going for it, a more powerful PSU, but I would always look at changing the one that comes with a better quality one if needed in the future (after the warranty finished), it has bluetooth built in, a Wi-Fi card, and the biggest boost for it is the video card, as best I can see it is substantially better in performance, and it has the same CPU, when looking at a system it's always worth keeping some things out of the choice making decision.

 

To explain, any drive can be added, removed or replaced for little cost these days, and with ease usually, so the DVD drive, or hard drive can always be changed, so don't let these be a major factor in choosing, again ram, the Acer may come with half the amount of ram that the other one does, but this can also be easily updated\replaced at any time, and with todays DDR3 prices it isn't hard to get an affordable 16gig set (compared to the cost of the system), and add to that it can take up to 32gig if it was needed, I suspect the other system is already at it's max.

 

The most important factors IMHO are the CPU and the Video, while other factors should not be dismissed, these are the 2 factors that will say how well it will perform for the most part, again other factors can come into play here, and there may be exceptions, and other parts can certainly influence what these parts can do, but one would hope if someone put 2 good parts such as these in a build, they would not use something else that would slow these down, it would be professional suicide IMO.

 

The other possible big factors are the case, the PSU, and the motherboard, if you plan to extend then you need the space and connections to do so, but I think it's fair to say if someone is buying a store bought system, they are unlikely to be adding that much (if anything) to it, but they can become major factors depending on what future plans the person has for it, anyway I hope you get the system you want, and are happy with it.

Generally, if I buy a decent machine from the start, I will upgrade RAM after a few years. Other than that, you are correct. I don't do a lot of upgrading on pre-built machines. That's why I like to get something good from the start. 

Any particular reason for changing the PSU after the warranty runs out? 
 

Since the price went down $50 since the weekend, I am going to have to jump on this. 

That's a good way to go, I always advise people to get the best processor they can afford when buying store bought systems, it maximises the decent working life of the system (before it starts to struggle running stuff), 8gig of ram is ample for smooth running for most peoples needs, and as you say can be upgraded at any time, but you do need to make sure what future plans you may have for this, that the motherboard can actually take this when you're ready to do it.

 

The reason I say about changing the PSU out is more from past history, I've seen way too many systems fried due to cheap PSU's going bad, and makers often put in a cheap (often no name) PSU into store bought systems, to make the price more attractive is\was common practice, the PSU is the heart of your system, so you wouldn't put an old scrap cars engine leaking oil into a Ferrari is how I usually put it.

 

I'd like to think this happens less than it used to, but it never ceased to amaze me seeing people buying £\$600 + video cards, but only wanting to pay £\$ 50 max on the PSU, so if you have a quality system, you don't want anything putting that at risk, but I didn't say definitely change it, but do take note of the PSU (you will need to read the info direct from the label with the side removed probably), and check out for reviews etc, then if they start ringing alarm bells then it's best to swap it for a quality unit, that's all, but I'm sure you will love the new system.

Whiteout did you get the Acer?

Yes I did, and it must have been my lucky day. The price went up 200 the day after I ordered it. I have had it since Wednesday, everything seems good so far