3rd party programs

I recently had some issues with these 3rd party programs but want to know if I am wrong or right. When I clicked File Hippo Update Checker a message said you are trying to install a 32 bit program on a 64 bit PC. Secunia kept spinning and even the forum could not resolve why Adobe Flash could not be updated. I am only using Revo for Autoruns but use all Windows in an attempt to not corrupt files. I am updating programs from the programs themselves. I know I am leaving remnants behind when I remove a program via add remove but I am not proficient enough to maneuver the registry. I have dropped Ccleaner also. Macrium is my life saver. I could not run SFC with either PC so performed an image and am using just Windows utilities. SFC and all things seem good so far. Do you agree that 3rd party programs can cause problems? or - have I made an error in not using them?

I have never had a problem with Revo or CCleaner, but I don't think they are required, just nice to use to keep a cleaner system. I use the Advanced setting for Revo which is more aggressive and have never had it cause a problem. Caveat Emptor of course! I use many features of CCleaner, including drive cleanup, registry cleaner, system restore point remover, startup. As long as you have good Macrium backups your in good shape. I use Acronis as you used to.

Do you agree that 3rd party programs can cause problems?

Not a fair question. What's a 3rd party program? Some would say that means any program not made by Microsoft so that would include the vast majority or programs out there. Can some cause problems? Certainly. But many are excellent, providing superior performance and features than the "basic" tools included in Windows.

Since Windows includes Disk Cleanup, you could say that CCleaner is a 3rd party program, but it is hardly 3rd rate. It has been around for almost 10 years with a solid reputation.

Secunia PSI and Adobe Flash have always had problems (note they may both be considered 3rd party) but I think that is because PSI uses Flash - not to mention Adobe Flash, Shockwave and Reader certainly are known for their shares of hassles on their own.

I know I am leaving remnants behind when I remove a program via add remove but I am not proficient enough to maneuver the registry.

But the reality is, with the way Windows accesses Registry entries, that is not really a problem as those orphaned entries don't do anything, and don't get in the way.

I have dropped Ccleaner also.

You certainly don't have to use the Registry cleaner feature, but note the clutter cleaner is very efficient, and what I like about it over other cleaners is you can select which cookies you want to keep. Another nice feature Rich did not mention is Drive Wiper - a "disk wipe" feature you can use to safely "wipe" a drive of all data, as well as just wiping the free space on a drive.

I personally don't see the need for both Secunia PSI and File Hippo. One or the other works for me, and I like PSI.

I could not run SFC with either PC so performed an image and am using just Windows utilities. SFC and all things seem good so far.

I don't understand this. Why couldn't you run SFC?

Rich you have a good memory re: Acronis - I miss try and decide. I tried to run SFC but unlike previous years, it reported corrupted files and other issues. I ran it in safe mode and 4 times to no avail. This was after the problems with File hippo update checker trying to install a 32 bit program on my 64 but machine and Secunia having trouble with Flash Player. When I recovered an earlier Macrium image SFC worked fine again. I think it is a good tool to be used when needed and on occasion. I tune up both similar pcs at the same time and therefore the issues surface at the same time. I think it boils down to better skilled or smarter users ability to stray from the simplicity of Windows and get the most out of programs like Ccleaner, which I acknowledge has an excellent long time reputation. Those less capable can run into trouble with 3rd party programs with just one wrong click. I do not mean to paint all 3rd party programs with one brush, not at all. Like anything else including doctors etc, some are good and some not so good.. Rather it is the user that has to be looked to. Windows will not do the job other programs can but it is easier. Incidentally, I recently received a forum reply from a very smart person who, knowing I was using Win 8, directed me to perform a task as one would with Win 7. If I told you the forum you would faint. So I think there is a commingling of the exactness of an advisor, the skill of the user, and the inherent danger of some, some programs. I come here because I have never been given poor advice and hope to continue doing so. You have seen me in other forums partly because I am impulsive and partly because I like the interchange from advisors and friends. Yet, I try not to duplicate time and effort, for the most part. Peter

problems with File hippo update checker trying to install a 32 bit program on my 64 machine

A 32 bit program that still contains 16bit code will not run on 64bit architecture, as 16bit is not recognized, but will run fine on 32bit architecture.

I've had the same problem with FileHippo since recently changing from W7 32bit to 64bit. FileHippo should recognize that my PC is now 64bit and download program updates accordingly.

FileHippo was fine with a 32bit OS, but I'm going to get rid of it now.

HI Lee That was the beginning of my problems. I am glad to hear someone else confirm that it was not me. I hope you resolve your issues. I too have dropped them and others. I'll do a little more checking of updates and vulnerabilities myself. I think the transition to Win 7 and 8 required more homework than some companies were willing to invest. Thanks for the confirmation. Peter

I think the transition to Win 7 and 8 required more homework than some companies were willing to invest.

There was a time when all programs were written in 16bit code.
When 32bit OSs came along and because it recognized 16bit code, it was was much easier and cheaper to only partially re-write the program in 32bit (just enough) for it to work fine with the new architecture.

When 64bit XP came out hardly any programs were available to take advantage of it and nobody was going to the effort anyway, considering the lack of acceptance for it. Turned the XP 64bit potential into a disaster and a big flop.

To a degree, the same scenario happened when Vista 64bit came out, as 64bit code has a very large address space need (a lot of code writing) and it was only when 4GB and up motherboard RAM became commonly available did programs start to make a serious effort to get rid of 16bit code from their 32bit software. As always, software is about 3 to 5yrs behind hardware, so I've never been an early adopter and is the reason for my late change to W7 64bit, as it's only now that 64bit common software is starting to emerge.

I still only have CCleaner, 7-Zip, CPUID, Macrium Reflect, Speccy and WhoCrashed on my computer that are genuine 64bit programs and they all came out only this year. All my other 80 odd non-64bit programs are in the (x86) folder, so it's a mute point that my computer is running faster or actually slower with W7 64bit, as all 32bit programs have to now go through a sort of filter called a WoW64 subsystem, that emulates only the 32-bit environment through an additional layer between a 32-bit application and the 64-bit Windows API (application programming interface).

A virtual 32bit computer on a 64bit computer(?)

PS edit:
For more general but pro x64 info., see 32-bit vs. 64-bit: More Bit, More Performance?

If sfc is reporting problems then you have problems. I would suggest posting at sysnative.com and letting Richard or Jeff help you resolve the problems, they are really good at this kind of stuff.

If sfc is reporting problems then you have problems. I would suggest posting at sysnative.com and letting Richard or Jeff help you resolve the problems, they are really good at this kind of stuff.

>>I have used Macrium and am all set. SFC was reporting corruption etc.
I went to the site to make it a favorite but noticed it was Win 7. I wonder if it does Win 8 also?
I am sorry to mislead you about timing.

as it's only now that 64bit common software is starting to emerge.

I would say starting with the release of Windows 7, which was nearly 4 years ago. Today, 64-bit applications are common. And while true, 64-bit operating systems support, with very few exceptions, 32-bit applications, if 64-bit is not supported, that company will likely fail.

64-bit support is very widespread. Note the use of 64-bit Windows 7 exceeds the use of all other operating systems - combined! (Source).

CCleaner, 7-Zip, CPUID, Macrium Reflect, Speccy and WhoCrashed on my computer that are genuine 64bit programs and they all came out only this year.

Ummm, no. Sorry, but that is also incorrect.

CCleaner v3.00.1303, released 28 Oct 2010 with a 64-bit native version.
CPUID - since at least 2009
Speccy - 2010.
7-Zip has had a 64-bit version since 2006!
Macrium - Feb 2012 (if not before)

I cannot find a full version history of WhoCrashed, but pretty sure a 64-bit version came out before this year. I note it at least supports 64-bit XP which at least suggests it has been around awhile.

64-bit support and versions may not have been highly publicized (because the massive user-base was still using 32-bit, and most 32-bit software runs fine on 64-bit HW and OS) but software companies have had true 64-bit versions of much of their software for years. You just had to look for it.

The fact of the matter is, and in contrast to yesteryear, most companies today make 64-bit software, then port it to run on 32-bit platforms - not the other way around - that is, if they are not concentrating on tablet and phone apps.

No, I was mistaken. I don't know why Who Crashed was in my C: programs x64 folder instead of the x86 folder, but it is only x86. There is no x64 version.

Web searched very carefully (just in case) and all my software is the latest available and almost all of it just x64 "supported", which means of course that x86 programs work on x64 computers

I'm wondering if you think "supported" means genuine x64?

The most notable programs that I and many others use which are not available in x64 are Malwarebyes, SeaMonkey, ImgBurn, Revo Uninstaller, Foxit Reader, and EaseUS - Partition Master.
If you have any obscure links suggesting otherwise, I would like to get them please Bill because I can't find them

SUPERAntiSpyware is now available in x64.

I'm wondering if you think "supported" means genuine x64?

I know the difference. That is why I specifically said of WhoCrashed, "pretty sure a 64-bit version came out before this year. I note it at least supports 64-bit XP".

Obscure? It took seconds, with little effort at each site to scan through version histories. You can do it too.

SUPERAntiSpyware is now available in x64.

And has been since mid 2010.

I am not going to research every program for you. As I noted, you can do that for yourself. The point is, contrary to your initial comment, "native" 64-bit software is not "starting to emerge", much has been around for years, and more and more is coming out all the time.

Malwarebyes, SeaMonkey, ImgBurn, Revo Uninstaller, Foxit Reader, and EaseUS - Partition Master.

That's only 6 programs Bill and if as you say "Obscure? It took seconds" to find, well that's less than a minute to find all six

Where are they then?

Here is an example of all I could find for Malwarebytes (from the official site): Support for XP Service Pack 2, Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 (32-bit and 64-bit) 64bit "supported" as you understand, is only x86. If not on the official site, where is the native x64bit version?

As for SeaMonkey I get: "There aren't any official 64 bit builds of Firefox, Thunderbird and SeaMonkey for Windows" http://kb.mozillazine.org/64_bit_builds
There is however a link to unofficial experimental builds.

PS edit:
Oh what the heck, here is what they say on the official sites for the rest of them:

EaseUs "Supports Windows 2000/XP/Vista/7/8"
http://www.partition-tool.com/landing/home-download.htm

Revo Uninstaller "Revo Uninstaller Pro is fully compatible with
32-bit and 64-bit versions of Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8 and Windows Server"
http://www.revouninstaller.com/

ImgBurn From the author of ImgBurn:
"It can't happen at the moment, period. My development environment simply doesn't allow for it.
Not only that, there's nothing to gain from it being 64bit. The optical drive is the slowest component and it won't magically get any faster".
http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=13298

No native x64 for any of them.

64bit "supported" as you understand, is only x86.

what makes you think that lee?

if a program mentions 64bit anywhere, especially if they say they have 32bit and 64bit os support, then to me that means they have a 64bit version not a 32bit version that runs on a 64bit os, otherwise i'd bet they could be done for false advertising.

if they said "compatible" with 64bit then that to me would mean 32bit running on 64bit os but "supported" to me definitely means they have a native 64bit version.

like most things if a program doesn't gain any benefit by being 64bit over 32bit then the devs don't feel it's a priority to make 64bit builds and i think that's the main reason why firefox is still 32bit, even tho i do believe they've had 64bit firefox on linux for some time now and do official 64bit nightly builds for windows too.

skype is another program i can think of that doesn't have a 64bit version yet but again that's because there are no real advantages for a 64bit version over the 32bit version.

any program that does see real benefits by going 64bit tho you can put money on it they already have a 64bit version out by now in my opinion.

personally i've been running a 64bit os for at least 5 years without any software problems whatsoever.

I didn't say I was having any program "problems" since installing W7 x64 Terry (off topic).
I like W7 x64 but was just disappointed how so few of my updated and installed 3rd. party software is native x64 and I'm not going to argue here with you about what the innuendo of "x64 supported" really means.

This is Peter's thread so lets not hijack it.
I only brought the subject up of lack of native x64 non-Microsoft software and how x86 software works on x64 architecture, because he seems to be genuinely interested in what's going on in his computer(s) and specifically in this instance x86 3rd party software on a x64 computer. The official site info. of the 5 programs I mentioned in my last post was because they are all major 3rd. party software.

Peter can simply run Belarc Adviser or similar to find out just how little/lot native x64 software is actually on his computer and may have already done so by now. He can also just look in his programs (x86) folder to see what installed programs are only 32bit.