Dell Dimension 2400 Problems

I realize this is an "old" computer but I'm trying to make it work much better. It is a relatives in Idaho and i'm visiting for the next 2 or so days. Startup boot is 4-5 minutes long. Hit the start button and there's a blank screen with an underlined curser up in the upper left corner (3+ minutes) until it finally shows the hourglass. I'll eventually get the Windows XP screen and then the software shortcuts show up and it's finally ready to use (another 2+ minutes). Launch IE8 and start to type for a search and even the typing has a hard time keeping up.

I'm been a user of WTT for virus' and malware issues on my personal Toshiba laptop and, as always, you all have been great. I'm again searching for guidance . I went searching into MW forum, windows xp and found a post that I followed some of the advice for a similiar issue. I was mainly working the "startup" issue and focused mainly identifying all apps in startup.

1) went into MSCONFIG ->startup tab and checked the windows application box and unchecked all others and then rebooted to see if it sped up. No it didn't.
2) another WTT request in the reference post was to use PCPITSTOP and do a full run. I did and here's the location; http://pcpitstop.com/betapit/sec.asp?conid…;report=summary
Checked the summary, and did some of the summary actions. I did upgrade to SP3 and rebooted. No change in startup speed. Didn't touch the "change internet receive buffer". I noticed in Task Manager that the "load" on RAM was very high and Pitstop confirms. I can't get new memory yet and know 256Mb is very low. A note, in past history it was never this bad in startup or response. I'm assuming it's a software load issue but can't seem to get my arms around it. Didn't touch the "reduce system restore capacity", did "delete tracking cookies" (and ran ccleaner), haven't yet increased RAM, emptied the recycle bin, and haven't upgraded the 2 driver's (sound, and modem)

I did download MBAM, updated and ran it with no issues. Downloaded the latest Free Avast, upgraded, and ran it and found 1 Trojan which I suspected. Put into the vault and deleted. Rebooted, still the same startup boot problems.

( In looking at posts, it was stated the Avast software requires alot of memory to operate as compared to Microsoft Security Essentials. It was stated that MSE was less of a load on the RAM but is it as good as Avast. If so, I'd be happy to switch over. )

At this point, I'm stuck and need your help.

Thanks in advance, Fred

Hi Fred. Whatever link you posted to PCPitStop is to a much newer computer running Windows 7. So, it doesn't provide any insight to what can be slowing this computer down. But, most likely, by far, its the fact you only have 256MB of RAM. Anybody selling a Windows XP computer with only 256MB should've been taken out back and… Well, you get the picture. Horrible, horrible, horrible. At least 1GB is required for Windows XP to run efficiently. Upgrading from 256MB to 1GB will provide a difference in performance that can't be described with words. Anyways, try to get the right PCPitStop posted and maybe there is some further information people can provide you. Yes, MSE is better than Avast. In my opinion, there are only two factors that determine the quality of an Anti-virus. Performance, and detection rate. And MSE is better at both. And, no once per year (and much more) pop-ups with misleading ads about upgrading to the pro version - which put the final nail in the coffin for me.

Appleoddity, thanks for the reply back. I have major egg-on-face, here is the correct Pcpitstop data; http://pcpitstop.com/betapit/sec.asp?conid…;report=Summary. I didn't test it and I apologize. I fully understand the lack of RAM issue. Thanks for the info on MSE, I'll switch it over. This is a computer my sister has had since 2002-2003, I'm trying to see if I can help it out to it's original performance. Hoping I could help on the startup issue, it still looks weird to me. Don't know if there's info on the minimum startup software. I seem to find a number of places where "startup" apps are (control panel, MSCONFIG, Task Mgr, other?) and I've been spending alot of time researching each of the entries and trying to figure if it needs to be on or not.

I've spend time researching the ram to get and I'm settling on dual 1Mb Crucial DIMM SDRAM (2Gb total) and even looking at a CPU upgrade to a 3.06MHZ Northwood P4 processor and upgrade the firmware to A-05. I think I could go with the RAM only and see a good enough upgrade to keep her surfing.

I'd really like your thoughts. Thanks, Fred

Hi Fred. There is an error in the documentation for this computer. It is questionable that this computer will be able to read any more than 512MB per slot. It has a single 256MB chip in one slot. Add an additional 512MB chip in the second slot as found here: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Ca…_1225_6870_6870

Or, add 2 and replace the 256 that it has. Don't put a penny more in this computer. Its not worth it. If you want that much more performance buy a new computer for $350. You'll get nothing but bang, bang, bang for that few bucks you put into RAM. Everything else is a waste.

Now, if you want this computer to run faster you're going to have to get rid of a few things. You can't run Avast and McAfee at the same time. No, no.

Return msconfig to normal startup. You had it in limited startup during the PCPitStop test and I can't see the running processes. But, I don't care. Just return it to normal, so that uninstalling the following programs will properly remove them from the startup list. It won't remove them if they don't exist due to a "limited" startup mode in msconfig.

Now, uninstall the following:
Adobe Reader 9
CenturyLink QuickAssist Desktop Tools
TuneXP 1.5
avast! Free Antivirus
Google Toolbar for Internet Explorer
Qwest Quickcare 2.7
McAfee Security Scan Plus
Yahoo! Toolbar
HP Smart Web Printing
HP Update
Shop for HP Supplies
HP Customer Participation Program 12.0
Qwest Windows Live Toolbar Buttons
DellSupport
Viewpoint Media Player
McAfee.com VirusScan Online
McAfee.com SecurityCenter
MusicMatch Jukebox
Digital Line Detect
NetWaiting
Modem Helper

If you HAD, but NO LONGER HAVE, the HP printer or the Dell printer please uninstall the software for it in addition:
HP printer would be these:
HP Officejet 6500 E709 Series (Should uninstall the rest with this one, but look for the remainder below)
HP Imaging Device Functions 12.0
OCR Software by I.R.I.S. 12.0
HP Solution Center 12.0
HP Document Manager 2.0

For the Dell printer:
Dell AIO Printer A940 (This is probably the printer you don't have - and never did have)

You can avoid rebooting until the last program is uninstalled (except for the HP software - they suck and force you to reboot, I'd uninstall the HP software last).

Next, you are missing updated and necessary third party programs for proper viewing of internet web pages and PDF files. Download and run the following automated installer from ninite.com: Ninite Installer

The above installer will automatically update or install the following items:
Adobe Reader, Adobe Flashplayer, KLite Codec Pack, Java, SilverLight, Shockwave, and Microsoft Security Essentials. Go ahead and reboot after it finishes.

Now, open MsConfig and disable the following services: HP Cue Device Discovery, Java Quick Starter
Under startup items disabled the following: Adobe Acrobat (Not to be confused with the "Adobe Reader and Acrobat Manager")

Open the Microsoft Security Essentials user interface and click on the settings (or advanced tab, I forget). Under scheduled scans, turn it off. Under default actions, set them all to quarantine.

Apply your settings and restart the computer. When the Dell Logo comes up on the screen start tapping F2 multiple times until you get into the BIOS configuration screen. Dell had a REAL BAD habit of two critical settings that cause huge performance issues on this series of computer. Unfortunately, your system has a single threaded CPU so one of them doesn't matter. I can't find any instructions on the contents of the BIOS settings on this computer, so I am pulling from memory simply by the appearance of your computer's case. I may have a different BIOS in mind.

Look for an item that is similar to the following:
Onboard Video, or Video Memory, or Primary Display Controller, or something like that. It will be set to 1MB, and it can be changed to 8MB. It is the last item on the list of one of the sub menus in the BIOS. I think peripheral settings is the menu you are looking for.

If you find the option and change it to 8MB then press F10 to save and exit the BIOS.

Finally, you've done about all you can do to this system to make it run faster. Add the memory as discussed and the system will not only run way better than it ever has, it will run better than could even enter the imagination of your mind.

Post an updated PCPitStop test link and I'll check your work and let you know if there is anything else you need to do.

Don't forget that basic maintenance includes cleaning out the case and fans, testing system RAM (especially after adding new memory), checking hard drive integrity (being sure to use the scan for and attempt recovery of bad sectors option), inspecting for bad or leaking capacitors and bad fans, and installing all available windows updates and service packs. Finally, a thorough defrag with something other than the built in windows defragger, such as Defraggler will squeeze out the last remaining ounces of performance you can get. Be warned though, as with most such "free" programs Piriform has taken to trying to shove the updater, and google products down everybody's throats. When you are installing this product uncheck the options to check for updates automatically, replace windows defragger, and integrate into context menu, and uncheck the option to install any google products like Chrome or the google toolbar - otherwise you will be on your way to slowing your computer back down.

Do all this and you'll not only have a computer that runs great (relatively speaking) and you'll have added a few more years to the life of the system. Take care.

One last note: The "long" pause at the initial starting screen before you see the windows logo is probably not going to go away with the above instructions. That is a problem with the boot sector, and MBR. It'll require some fairly advanced procedures (as if we didn't already get pretty advanced) that I would rather avoid if the pause is not too significant. Overall, once the system is booted it will be much faster. However, there is one possibility that the long pause at the beginning is the system's attempt to read the CD/DVD drive and the drive may be having trouble. You can change the "boot order" in the BIOS settings. You can make the hard drive the first boot item and that may fix the delay. But, you'll have to set the CD/DVD drive as the first boot item, or use the F12 button during the initial start sequence to boot from a diagnostic disc such as the memory test referenced above.

I've got alot of work to do, and that's a good thing. I'll start on it right away. I understand about getting too carried away with "upgrades' on this unit. I'm really happy with all the info on tuning up what I have. I'll get the MSCONFIG back to Normal setup and start deleting the list. Understand about having Avast and McAfee running at the same time, i thought I had McAffee turning completely off. Deleting both and going to MSE will solve that issue. They now have a HP6500 as their printer. I assume I'll have to keep all the remainder of that software? HP Officejet 6500 E709 Series (Should uninstall the rest with this one, but look for the remainder below) HP Imaging Device Functions 12.0 OCR Software by I.R.I.S. 12.0 HP Solution Center 12.0 HP Document Manager 2.0 Will dump all the Dell printer apps. I'm not familiar with MSE but will proceed with your requests as well as the BIOS settings. Thanks, Fred

Dont uninstall the HP apps you just listed if you have that printer. But, uninstall the other ones I listed in the main list of programs I said to uninstall. Have fun. I train my techs to do this day in and day out.

Hi Fred, I just noticed your topic, some things jumped out at me immediately……. Before you install a new anti virus product, it's very important to fully uninstall the old one….. The uninstall must include a reboot to ensure that certain files are removed correctly…(close down your machine wait 30 seconds with a blank black screen and then start it up again….) As a matter of course I always then run the dedicated uninstaller tool that is provided by the "old" anti virus firm…..and follow this up with a reboot. Do this for each anti virus product you have ever installed. You should be able to find easily the developer's uninstall tools, but if you are in trouble post back and I'll link you to them. If you don't follow this procedure then there is considerable risk that some elements of the "old" anti virus products may still be running in some form and conflicting with each other….. its not unknown for a computer of this age to have had maybe 3 or 4 different anti virus products installed on it at some time in its past…… As already pointed out by appleoddity your machine cannot cope with the demands of today with 256Mb of RAM and you would do well to put in the maximum amount that the machine will take…..its not expensive and will have a huge effect on performance…….. if you go here: www.crucial.com and let the Crucial scanner scan your computer (you will need to accept an ActiveX control and this is generally considered safe from this site) it will tell you the maximum your machine can handle, the type and price etc…… you don't have to actually buy from them (but I've used them for years and never been disappointed. I run a Dell Dimension 2400 with XP home as my main desktop computer (one of the reasons why your post caught my eye!) and with the operating system set up correctly, appropriate software installed with sufficient RAM ( I have 1Gb in each slot (a total of 2Gb) the computer is very fast and responsive. It boots up (ready to use the Internet) in 70 seconds…… if I compare it with my new laptop….( running Win7 ultimate with an i5 processor and 8GB of RAM) it does very well…all things considered.. I obtained the Dell Dimension 2400 several years ago from a customer who had replaced it with a new computer as the Dell was too old and slow……it too had only 256 Mb of Ram and a hopelessly cluttered operating system .full of junk and the detritus of years of use…. I formatted the hard drive and reinstalled the operating system and drivers, then all appropriate software and this (between other jobs) took under an hour….. ( the Windows updates however took a while longer!) I expect this machine (which has served me well for the last 3 years or so) will continue up to the Spring of 2014 when I will need to consider its future…but in the meantime its a useful, fast and responsive machine…. I hope this helps set the scene for you Regards paws

Ahh. You're like one of my technicians paws who loves to run those uninstall tools on all those anti-virus products. Not a bad idea, just time consuming and rarely necessary. Finally, I haven't found one of their uninstall tools yet that actually remove the drivers installed by the product. That goes for McAfee, Norton, AVG, Avast, and others. None of them remove their drivers. If you want to confirm what I just said, try all your uninstall tools for all the anti-virus products you want then show hidden and non-present devices in device manager (use the SHOW_DEVMGR_NONPRESENT_DEVICES environment variable) - you'll see all the drivers still listed under non plug and play devices. Good thing is you can delete them from there. Again, not sure that this actually matters at all because they are "inactive" drivers (with the exception of McAfee that usually leaves an active driver). But, I DO sometimes clear out all the ghosted devices and improve startup times on a system. I've taken to just using a removal tool when necessary do to a problem caused by the product, other than that I haven't run into a scenario where the removal tool provided any further benefit. I'm more likely to delete the ghosted devices from device manager instead of run removal tools.

Hi appleoddity

who loves to run those uninstall tools on all those anti-virus products. Not a bad idea, just time consuming and rarely necessary.

I can't agree with you at all on that particular comment….. in my book it's a wise technician who uses the developer's uninstall tool before installing a new anti virus product….(and remembers the reboot…) that's my view anyway.

I have many machines that come into the workshop, suffering from incomplete uninstalls where active remnants prevent the correct workings of the new AV product leading to a slow and unresponsive machine where the software tends to conflict… if the developers special tool is used, these sort of problems are mostly avoided.

Any further "remnants" likely to be left behind by the developer's uninstall tool are ( as you observe) unlikely to cause problems or conflict with the new AV….

However as always it's the owners decision as to how she/he wants to proceed… However when the machine's in my workshop then the appropriate use of the developer's uninstall tool is part of our Standard Operating Procedure. Its hardly time consuming to run the uninstall tool, they mostly run pretty quickly.
Regards
paws

If a previous anti-virus product is partially uninstalled and causing issues with an existing anti-virus product than that is a "necessary" circumstance as I also mentioned. So, you do kind of agree with me. I just don't choose to run it on all products, under all circumstances. I think most of those tools were created specifically for problematic installations - otherwise the manufacturer usually suggests the regular add/remove programs procedure. Happy new year Paws.

Thanks appleoddity Have a great new year Regards paws

Gentlemen, Appleoddity and Paws, Happy New Year! It's been a long session but I've gone thru the instructions and made a second PCPitstop run (www.pcpitstop.com/betapit/sec.asp?conid=24728007). At the end of the day, I measured my definition of boot time that goes from pushing the start button to the point I that I can use IE8 to search a subject. It's 11 minutes. After all this, it's still about the same amount of total boot time since we started. I know the system is much better off but at this stage it's still really slow. I went thru and unistalled each program in the list plus some "games". Paws, welcome to the fray and appreciate your input. I did more work wrt the potential of McAfee and Avast remnants still being left over. Avast has a download program that uninstalls Avast. I saw your comments on McAfee and have heard that before. I looked up the steps of how to get to device manager and use the SHOW_DEVMGR_NONPRESENT_DEVICES environment variable) and check the drivers still listed under non plug and play devices. I couldn't find anything that resembled remnants of either AV. From that point I proceeded with the Ninite Installer install, the MSCONFIG disables under services, but couldn't find the "Adobe Acrobat" under Start to disable it. Did the MSE setting changes, applied the settings and restarted. Performed the BIOS changes, took a while and found it under "Integrated Devices" and was able to change "onboard video buffer" to 8 Mb and saved settings. Eventually the Windows XP logo came up and started loading icons and the lower tray. MSE opened a window that said the AV wasn't on and needed to hit the "start now" button. I did. As an aside, this situation keeps happening each time i restart the computer, I have to manually restart MSE. It doesn't start or stay loaded during the boot session. At this point, I've timed the restarting process. Here's a synopsis; press start button ( Dell logo instantly starts) to "Windows XP" logo = 5:45 minutes from Windows XP to the User box coming up = +30 seconds from User box to Icons and lower tray starting to load = +1:50 minutes (at that point I launch IE for it to load & total elapsed time is 8 minutes) from User box/lower tray to MSE box (warning me that "service stopped and to manaully launch it thru its start button) = +1:45 minutes IE (Google) finally finishes loading and ready to "search" = total elapsed time is 11 minutes total A couple of questions; (1) I didn't mention this but there is a Windows Live Messinger box that comes up for her to log into for her Qwest email on MSN during the boot process. I think this is part of the MSN (butterfly) software. I've heard it's a resource hog including RAM, is this s/w useful, she's using it for email, or can you recommend a better email source. I happen to use Yahoo mail, but I'd like your(s) opinions. (2) I noticed "AOL" elements keep loading up. I've uninstalled it but obvously it's in another place. Paws, I was glad to hear your experience, description (hopelessly cluttered operating system .full of junk and the detritus of years of use) and procedures with your 2400. It's exactly what condition this computer is in. I noticed you did a complete wipe and reinstall of ALL software. In the back of my mind I was thinking we may need to get to that point but was hoping we wouldn't. If we do, I'm in, but wont be able to do this till I come back in a few months. I'll also install the extra RAM, whatever it works out to be. I going back to California tomorrow so I wont be back on line till Tuesday and will instruct my sister to do other actions as necessary. Hope I havent gotten to verbose, just trying to provide detail. Again, thanks to you both. Fred x

You've done a great job Fred.

There's a couple of things I have comments about.

First, 5:45 time from Dell Logo to windows XP loading screen is ridiculous. That's definitely a large issue and one of your primary problems with startup.

The remaining time I really don't see as much of a problem. The system is far too short on RAM, and this doesn't seem unreasonable at all. If the user has a lot of desktop icons this will dramatically slow down start up times.

Next, let MSE do its thing. Don't start it up manually. It should start just fine on its own. You're dealing with something else causing start up delays and its causing services to be delayed. I just don't think you are being patient enough.

Unfortunately, according to your PCPitStop test your hard drive speed has fallen to unacceptable and questionable levels. This hard drive might be having trouble of some sort. There's a new tool that was pointed out by Paws in another thread, that I have not had a chance to use yet. It looks very promising, and I would like you to try to test your hard drive with it. First, lets take a look and see if by any chance this system has fallen into PIO mode. Go back into device manager, expand IDE/ATAPI controllers, and find the primary ide controller. Open it up, and click the advanced tab. See if it is running in PIO mode or DMA mode. If it is running in PIO mode, delete the primary IDE controller and restart your computer. The device wil be redetected and you will probably be prompted to restart again after a moment go ahead and do so.

Next, export the application and system logs so I can take a look at problematic services that could be delaying your start up. To do so, open Event Viewer (click start, run, type eventvwr and press ENTER). Identify your SYSTEM log and APPLICATION log in the list. Right-click each one and export it and save it to a file on your desktop. When finished, find the two files you saved on the desktop, ctrl-click them both so that they are both selected, then right-click one of them and click send-to > compressed zip file. Upload the newly created .zip file as an attachment in your next post.

Please post this information first so I can look at it. Then, download and run HDDScan. I've used it briefly to see how it works. You'll have to uncompress the downloaded file and run the hddscan.exe file. You can click the "Smart" button to get a report of the hard drive's smart status. If you see anything RED, you can save the report and attach it to the forum for me to look at. Then, you can click the Add Task button and select surface test. Go ahead and do a Read test, and click Add Task. It will start right away. At this point, I don't know what the end result looks like, but if there is a report, attach it to the forum. The test can take several hours.

Take care.

@Paws, unfortunately HDDScan does not appear to provide any type of real-time graphical status report and no indication of remaining time, or progress. — EDIT: I take that back, you can double-click the task and it gives you several features, including a progress indicator, and graphical sector map. Excellent.

Appleoddity, Paws, Happy New Year If you find any free time (hah!) any chance either of you could put together a how-to for HDDScan? Sounds like it could be very useful for out tech community to use. If not, I'll see what I can come up with. I've installed it but have not used it yet.

I already started on it. So don't waste your time, otherwise I will have wasted mine on all these screenshots I took.