Separate partitions (boot, data, etc)

Hello, I've read in at least one thread here that it's beneficial to have separate partitions on the hard drive (Data versus Boot), and also to create separate images on different partitions so that one can get one's system back in 10 minutes or less… Is there already a Topic/Tips which explains what this is, why it is beneficial, and how to do it? If not, then I'd like to start the topic: what does it mean? why do I want to do it? How do I do it? Is the process different if I'm running Win XP, Vista, or Win 7? Is the process for creating these partitions different if I'm dual booting, for example, Win XP and Win 7? thank you, Linda

I've read in at least one thread here that it's beneficial to have separate partitions on the hard drive (Data versus Boot), and also to create separate images on different partitions so that one can get one's system back in 10 minutes or less…

My 2 cents on this and this is why I have 2 partitions on my drive. Drive c:\ has my os, Drive D: has all my data.

Reason I do this in a event of a virus attack, file corruption or for what ever the reason windows goes kablooie, or dies on me. All I have to do is reformat my c:\ drive and then I am back up and running no time flat, All my data on d:\ remains untouched and without losing nothing. Now I also use acronis backup in a event something like this happens, I just restore the c:\ drive back to my last know good back up, keep in mind I also back up my d:\ drive also.

Is there already a Topic/Tips which explains what this is, why it is beneficial, and how to do it?

Not sure did you try using the search function to see?

If not, then I'd like to start the topic:
what does it mean?
why do I want to do it?
How do I do it?
Is the process different if I'm running Win XP, Vista, or Win 7?
Is the process for creating these partitions different if I'm dual booting, for example, Win XP and Win 7?

thank you,
Linda

Here are some answers:

what does it mean: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Partition/requirements.html

why: http://askville.amazon.com/partition-exter…uestId=66807732

how to do it: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library…978(WS.10).aspx

Is the process for creating these partitions different if I'm dual booting, for example, Win XP and Win 7?
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/8790/dual-b…mputer-with-xp/

These are just a few of your answers, I am sure you going to get more answers on this.
Jimbo1

one of the main reasons for keeping the os and data on separate partitions is speed.

here's a nice read about partitioning and it's advantages :- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_partitioning

For one HDD and duel boot (regardless of OS's) it's all fairly straightforward Linda. Main thing is to install XP first as C: and Vista or W7 second for a simple to install of duel boot. If you want to go Vista or W7 first on C: it is a little bit harder but done correctly it's OK as there is boot software to make it a lot easier. I have XP first as C: partition (45GB) on my 250GB HDD and W7 as my second partition (50GB) and D: for data as my 3rd. taking up the rest of the space. Both XP and W7 "My Documents" are both auto-redirected (easy to do) to folders on D. I do have a second HDD in my desktop, but it's not really relevant for a Laptop and I use it for a separate paging file and an Archive drive for OS and Data images. There is absolutely no point in having more than 3 partitions (2 if only one OS) on one HDD. This sort of setup makes keeping an OS photo image of both OS's easy (kept on D) and your important data safe (for extra saftey it can be backed-up on external media like a USB HDD). We can sort out how to do the above anytime your ready to go in that direction. With the correct, simply and straightforward instruction, it's easy peasy and quick. Cheers, Lee

Thank you Lee!

I know that my steps will be very specific to me. I was wondering if WTT forums had a Tips and Tricks topic for this, like Doug's topic for how to avoid/prevent mal-ware. Hypothetically, why don't makers of computers automatically partition the hard drive into separate partitions from the factory? Or when first booting up, make it optional? Or adjustable on first bootup? If it were that way by default, everyone would get used to it and wonder why we never did it that way before

My particular set up will be slightly different…

Here's what I'm imagining (hoping) will work:
1) Install Win XP first as first primary partition (I'm prepping for this step. I'm backing up data - and I'm a packrat, so it takes a while. Making a list of software I've installed, finding license keys, etc). Eventually I will have installed the OS, drivers, and basic security software.

There will be 2 accounts - one which has admin rights and one which doesn't. At least, that's how I've worked in XP in the past.

Should I not install applications which might use \documents and settings profile folders until after I partition my disk to add a data partition? Maybe it doesn't matter because I could copy doc & settings in whole to the redirected folder on the data partition? Except for the ntuser.dat file and a few others, which are locked by the operating system when logged into an account.

2) Add 2nd primary partition for data, create a folder for documents & settings for my account in XP and "point" to it. Create other folders for data, possibly. Maybe create a "link" from c:\Linda directly to D:\documents and settings\Linda ? (Vista does something like this with a "junction" so that /users/linda and /documents and settings/linda are the same thing. I saw that when I did a "dir" command, but I don't know the steps to create a "junction" or the implications of doing that)

3) Add 3rd primary partition for Windows 7, which I haven't purchased yet, so I won't be installing just yet… I can format as NTFS and use it for paging or extra data… Or, perhaps I can keep the extra space in the data partition for now, and later on break it off into a primary partition. I am assuming that like previous versions of Windows, Windows 7 needs to be installed in a primary partition.

4) Add Extended partition, and split it into 3 logical drives, one for Linux OS, one for Linux Swap, and one for Exchange between Windows and Linux

5) Install Linux, set up Linux swap partition, set up File Exchange partition. This leave make Linux in charge of the boot sectors and boot menu… If I could I would install Linux first, but I suspect my Windows XP installation disk is not going to allow me to keep those partitions. Also, how would I get Linux to be on an Extended partition & logical drives, if I don't put Win XP onto the laptop first?

6) back up! image of whole internal drive

7) Install Windows 7 eventually

I'll need steps on "keeping an OS photo image of both OS's". And I am also hoping I'll be able to use Macrium Reflect with more success this time, on Windows XP rather than Vista. To back up to an external USB hard drive.

I suspect I won't get back to this until next week, assuming my downgrade installation from Vista to Windows XP goes okay.

I wish I could say I enjoy this sort of thing more than some other activities.



Have a great weekend!
Linda

Hi Linda,

Hypothetically, why don't makers of computers automatically partition the hard drive into separate partitions from the factory? Or when first booting up, make it optional? Or adjustable on first bootup? If it were that way by default, everyone would get used to it and wonder why we never did it that way before

Yes I agree, the idea is logical but the industry is often not

You will find a good WTT instructional post on installing XP here http://forums.whatthetech.com/index.php?showtopic=91962

Basically you are just following XP install disk prompts. The only variation to those instructions is to take the option to create an initial partition. 30GB would be plenty for XP. You will end up with about 11 to 14 GB of used space after updates, drivers and all your programs are installed. I use 45GB for XP but it has 3 large games taking up 18GB of that yet I still have plenty of free space.

As your HDD is not new and has several partitions already on it, they will all show up as partitions or "found OS's" during the initial XP install process. Just take the option to delete them all. You do that one at a time until all partitions are gone. You will then be asked if you want to create a partition or install XP on the whole of the drive, Just choose to create a partition after all partitions are removed (it will be called C: automatically). You will see the whole disk size in MB ("Space available"), just delete that an add the GB size in MB for the C partition size you want. Example: 30 x 1024MB = 30270MB (30GB). Ignore the rest of the deleted disk as you can partition that from within XP when it is up and running. Next step/choice is a slow format (don't chose the quick format option) and then XP will start installing.

You mentioned HDD efficiency, so here are a few pointers.
The most efficient part of the HDD is the outside of it. So I would put my 2 main OS's there (the first two partitions). The Data partition would be last as it is just storage, not an OS. So when you have XP up and running and you are in the "Disk Management" section ready to create and format some partitions, decide on the future OS's you plan to add and create the partitions for them one at a time and give them a name and a letter each. Save "D" for data which will be your largest and last partition (closest to the center of you HDD). The first partition you create next to XP with be for your future W7 (30 to 40GB). All letters are changeable except C: For convenience it might look something like this when you click "My Computer" on your start menu, The order the partitions appear (always alphabetically) is for in-use convenience, so what letters you give each partition is worth some thought. The letters themselves don't indicate what order they actualy are on your HDD. There, they are positioned for efficiency
[attachment removed]
Ignore my H and P partitions above as they are on a 2nd. HDD. Don't bother creating a separate paging file partition on a single HDD computer, as you will not gain any speed or efficiency, just the opposite IMHO.

You will note that both Data and my Disk-drive appears in between XP and W7 on the list. This is very convenient and efficient as both are easily accessed from either XP or W7, your main OS's. It's a simple matter of working out where you want different drives to appear under My Computer / Folders and allocating letters for them accordingly. Although on your HDD, XP and W7 partitions are next to each other, what you don't want is them to appear next to each other under "My Computer". That is why I have given W7 the letter "G".

Cheers,
Lee

is there a reason you need xp? in my opinion if there isn't i wouldn't bother installing it, it's not supported any more by microsoft and isn't as secure as win7 against malware anyway. i'd just dual boot with win7 and linux, probably use win7 to partition the hard drive, depending on hard drive size i'd delete all partitions like lee said then, create 3 partitions with win7 on install, 2gb first, 50GB second, rest of drive for last. leave first 2gb unformatted(this will be swap when linux installed), format 2nd and 3rd with ntfs then install win7 on 2nd, 3rd is for data. now when you install linux you will format and use the first 2gb as swap, and shrink the 3rd partition and create logical / and /home partitions on it, formatting them with file system of your choice(ext4 is mine). in my opinion always use separate passwords for user and root, might need to change a setting from default on install of the linux os you use to accomplish this. lee there is a speed increase i believe with using a dedicated paging partition(nothing i'd say you'd notice in daily use, if you didn't have one) but it needs to be the first partition on the hd and not anywhere else. i have one concern before you start messing with partitions tho linda, did this laptop come with a hidden restore partition? if so after you've backed up all your data, id use it to restore the laptop to factory condition, then make 2 iso backup images of your drive to dvd, just so you don't lose the restore data and can if need/wanted in future put it back in an as new state.

Terry,

Yes, there is. The reason is that I have a license for XP but haven't bought Windows 7 yet, and I"m not sure when I'll have it (I just spent $316 on brakes & rotors for my car - a necessity, given it's a safety thing). I really, really don't like Vista, never did, and since fewer people use Vista than XP, I want to drop back to XP for a while. If the machine will let me - if it will behave itself

Thanks for the advice about putting the Linux swap area as close to the first partition as possible. I am not sure that my Windows XP recovery DVD will allow me to create a small swap partition at the beginning before the Windows system partition. I'll try. I have 3GB of RAM and eventually I might increase to 4 GB, so I'm inclined to make the swap a 4GB partition, whereever I put it.

Some background about this system:
It's a Sony Vaio that I bought in July 2008 when Vista was being shoved down everybody's throat But, it came with no Vista installation media. It did come with a Windows XP "recovery" DVD.

When I first bought it , before I did anything (much) with the system, I created Vista recovery disks (it took two DVDs). In my opinion, Sony should've included Vista installation DVDs instead of making me burn them. And they're not even fresh install DVDs, they are recovery disks.

So I have no "fresh install" DVDs of Vista or XP. (Thank you Sony & Microsoft) (When I do get to the point of buying Windows 7, I am going to buy the full install, not recovery disks or an "upgrade". If I ever need to do a fresh install of Win 7, I don't want to have to worry about re-installing XP and then doing the upgrade to Win 7 over again.)

Here's the tricky part - my memory ain't what it used to be. I think I have installed Windows XP from the originally shipped Windows XP recovery DVD. But then I changed my mind and decided that I would try to put up with Vista. That would be when I used the two DVDs I burned earlier to reinstall Vista. However that was more than two and a half years ago, and I am not 100% certain I didn't just dream up the part about installing XP and then using my Vista recovery DVDs to put Vista back onto the system.

At any rate, I do have a "recovery" partition on my computer right now. So, I think you have good advice.

I'll look at the system docs to see if there's anything about how to use the hidden recovery partition to restore to factory condition - Vista "out of the box" so to speak… Then, presumably, I can make a second set of Vista recovery DVDs. Just in case there's anything wrong with the first set. Assuming that the current hidden recovery partition is in good condition, of course.

thank you,
Linda

Hi,
I"m getting a bit ahead of myself, but I like to plan ahead and list all of my steps in detail, before I begin this sort of project. I don't do this for all projects, but this is the kind of thing I'd when I'm deep into the process and forgot to do someting critical about 20 steps ago. So, I've been googling the "redirect" thing, hoping to get clear about it.

If I only redirect "My Documents", then all the settings in the rest of the "C:\Documents and Settings\username\" folder won't get stored to the separate data partition. So that means that even though I think all of my own data is on the safer D: drive, my settings are not on it, and so I will lose them if the C:\ drive gets corrupted. Am I not trying to avoid this?

The process of redirecting just the "My Documents" part of documents and settings seems fairly straightfoward. Redirecting the entire documents and settings profile seems more complex.

Assuming I ever get there should I separate my entire profile in "documents and settings" onto the D: drive, or just "My Documents"? Should I do this for both the "admin" account I create, as well as the non-priviledged account I create (which I could temporarily give admin rights to, if necessary)?

Links describing moving just 'My Documents' :
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=310147
http://www.techsupportalert.com/how_to_move_my_documents.htm

Links describing moving all of D&S:
http://forums.techguy.org/windows-xp/69255…ngs-folder.html (also mentions TweakUI, which I've not used)
http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/questions/101-304334
http://www.tech-recipes.com/rx/1409/move-y…of-the-c-drive/
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314843/
- it mentions doing it using /unattend but then describes editing the registry directly, too
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?…kb;en-us;236621

I'm not sure if this link is related - something about group policies and moving everyone's folders?
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documen…e.mspx?mfr=true

I'm off to figure out how to make use of the hidden recovery partition. First maybe it's time for a break though.

thank you for your help!

I know it is easy to imagine all sort of problems and terrors with what you would like to do, but it is also easy to imagine doing so to be far more difficult than it actually is.

If I only redirect "My Documents", then all the settings in the rest of the "C:\Documents and Settings\username\" folder won't get stored to the separate data partition. So that means that even though I think all of my own data is on the safer D: drive, my settings are not on it, and so I will lose them if the C:\ drive gets corrupted. Am I not trying to avoid this?

You make an image copy of your XP / Vista / W7 or whatever you are going to use. All your settings and everything else is included. If you suffer a corrupted system, you restore the image with all your settings. Your files in C: My Documents will be safe in your D: partition because they will have been constantly redirected. All your setting are safe because they are in your OS image.

Regardless of what new folders you create in C: My Documents, they will automatically appear in D: under My Documents. What you see or create in C: My Documents, won't actually be there. They will safely be in D:

To redirecting My Documents,
1. Simply create a folder in D: and call it My Documents.
2. Right click on My Documents in C: and select Properties. A box as below will open.
3. Type in the path as shown and then click "Move" / "OK"
[attachment removed]
Easy peasy.

Cheers,
Lee

Installation of Windows XP from my DVD did not allow me to create partitions. It simply creates one big partition, C: for the whole internal drive.

(It took me a long time to install the system because my DVD for XP is from July 2008, and a ton of Windows Updates needed to run. I tried the install unsuccessfully twice. First time I'd somehow introduced unacceptable delays during initial boot/logging in process. Second time I got BSOD when I attempted install of SP3. The Windows Update for SP3 rolled itself back, but I didn't trust it, so I started over again from the DVD for the 3rd time. This is the furthest I've gotten. I'm still putting applications and data back, so I'm not done yet)

Since the install DVD did not allow me to partition the hard drive, I tried the disk management tool. Except that in Windows XP, the Disk Management tool doesn't seem to have an option for shrinking a partition and then creating a new partition in the unallocated space.

I see the 'diskpart' utility when I open a command window. The command line help for diskpart is not helpful. http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documen…t.mspx?mfr=true doesn't tell me if 'create' is going to let me separate an existing partition into 2 partitions, or if it will only create a partition from unallocated space.

Also, I think I saw something which said diskpart is only available from console recovery, and I do not have a console recovery. I attempted to add it using winnt32.exe /cmdcons but that failed. I think that was before I installed SP3 though.

Page which talks about two 3rd party tools for managing partitions in XP: http://www.theeldergeek.com/hard_drives_05.htm

I wish I'd realized this functionality was missing from XP sooner. Is there a Microsoft tool for really managing partitions for Windows XP? I prefer using a MS supported tool if there is one.

thank you
Linda

I wish I'd realized this functionality was missing from XP sooner. Is there a Microsoft tool for really managing partitions for Windows XP? I prefer using a MS supported tool if there is one.

Somehow you must have missed an installation step Linda.

OK, you have XP installed on the whole HD space. If that is correct please download Easeus Partition Master free edition
http://www.partition-tool.com/download.htm Run the program and on the window that opens click on/highlight the C: space and then click on the "resize" icon in the top panel.
Enter the new size you want in MB (1024mb=1gb) and OK / Apply. This is a very reliable program.

Cheers,
Lee

Lee,

Sadly, there were no installation steps. There were only steps to confirm that I was going to completely wipe the disk and install a new C: partition. As soon as I got past those two confirmation steps, the DVD install process loaded "three" disks onto the harddrive. I suspect that there were 3 CDs which were chained together onto a single DVD. I can send/post the photos I took of each of the prompts during the installation. This is not an install disk from Sony or Microsoft. It is a recovery disk. I guess they did not feel obligated to give me all of the normal XP installation options.

I'll use Easeus Partition Master and try it.

I was also thinking that perhaps the Linux OS installation CD might have a tool for managing partitions on it…

thanks,
Linda

yes the linux installation disc will have a partitioning tool(usually GParted), but be very careful, especially if you have a hidden restore partition on that pc/laptop, if you mess up/delete the hidden partition, you may find the recovery cd's no longer work and you will have no way of restoring anything. this is why paws and the techs here keep stressing the importance of having an iso image of your hard drive and all it's partitions before doing anything.

this is why paws and the techs here keep stressing the importance of having an iso image of your hard drive and all it's partitions before doing anything.

(quit that - you're making me hungry!)

Thanks Terry.

Since I haven't got any personal data on this system yet, I decided to run Master Partition. It worked, as far as I can tell.

By "iso image" do you mean use either Acronis or Reflect to create the ISO on an external USB hard drive and create rescue disks? Then use those to restore the whole system. Makes sense to me. I plan to experiment with that soon too.

I had problems using Reflect on this computer when I had Vista installed. Hopefully that won't happen when I use it with Windows XP installed.

Some folks seemed unhappy with Acronis 2011 in this thread. http://forums.whatthetech.com/index.php?showtopic=116348 I'm wondering of there are still problems with Acronis.

The worst that can happen while I'm experimenting with configuration stuff is that I'll have to start over from DVD again I won't be putting personal data or documents on here just yet.

Maybe I can make a rescue CD & clean install ISO which would work better for me than starting over with that DVD, since it takes time to load all the Win Updates.

again, thank you for your sage advice