11 replies to this topic

[barebear]

I'm helping a friend with a Dell 3100 currently with XP Pro SP1. He had trouble after trying to install SP2 a couple of years ago and the rig was somehow ( he couldn't explain ) brought back to SP1. I told him that the system is security and stability compromised without the latest service pack and security updates ( let alone any MS suggested hardware component updates ). He asked me to see what I could do I scanned the system yesterday w/ Malwarebytes and found no issues. The rig boots and operates with no discernible problem, is used in a small business, has Quickbooks and the like on it ---- a lot of critical data that has to be preserved no matter what. It functions on the internet with Firefox 13 ( no noticeable issues ) I then used a boot disk and made a complete disk image to a portable hard drive. After that I went to Windows Update and was prompted to install SP3 with the comment that this had to be done before any other updating. I then started an install of SP3 as the store was closing and told my friend to reboot they system when he came in to open the store today. On reboots both in Safe and normal modes he got a blue screen with the following data: STOP 0x0000007E ( 0xC0000005, 0xF7488A3B, 0xF7A59324, 0xF7A59020 ) FLTMGR.SYS - F7408A3B Base At F7401000, DATESTAMP 480251da Given that he uses the computer daily for business, I restored the drive image and the system is again running with no apparent trouble. The friend does not have an install disk ( thank you for nothing Dell LOL ), so doing anything with Recovery Console would appear to not be an option ? I do have an XP SP3 install disk with which I could do a fresh install, but then a lot of important programs that ( at least to my knowledge ) can't be backed up will be lost. Quickbooks has a data backup function, but the program itself would have to be reinstalled. I have not had the time ( and won't for 5 days or so ) to go back to this computer and run chkdsk /f from a command prompt window. Given the above blue screen data, does anyone have an idea of what the issue(s) might be, and how to diagnose/ correct them beyond the chkdsk /f procedure?

[Ztruker]

This is a Dimension 3100, right, not the slimline 3100C?

What version BIOS is installed? There is a A04 version available here: Dimension 3100/E310
I would install that if the current version is older and see if that helps.

Also, what kind of processor does it have, AMD or Intel?

[barebear]

Hi Ztruker, It'll be next Monday or so till I can get back to that computer to check the bios version ( hit F2 while rebooting to get to setup ? ). Will also right click My Computer, then properties to look for processor type. What issues depending on whether AMD or Intel ? On the front it just says Dimension 3100 to the best of my remembrance but will recheck and advise Updating the bios --- I did it long ago on a Dell Dimension 8100, but don't remember the procedure I went through --what to do for this rig if it ( very likely ) needs the bios update? What to do if the bios update screws up the computer? --he has no cd for it of any sort.

[Ztruker]

Yes, F2 should take you to BIOS Setup where the version is shown.

You install it directly from Windows, see here: Installation Instructions

Re: Intel/AMD, I saw some info here: SP3 blue screen....

[terry1966]

just to answer this question.

What to do if the bios update screws up the computer?

keep your fingers crossed it doesn't because there's nothing you can do to get it running again from a failed bios update even if you had an install cd.

it would need the bios chip removing from the motherboard and either being replaced with a working chip or reprogramming of the original chip using special hardware.

that's one reason a lot of newer desktop motherboards now come with dual bios chips, so if a bios upgrade does fail it can always be restored from the backup bios chip instead of having to return the "dead" motherboard to the manufacturer to be fixed.

and that's also why techs never recommend anyone doing a bios update if they can get away with it.



to be honest after having read that the only thing the A04 offers/fixes over the A03 bios (if that's what you have) is added support for a new cpu, i wouldn't update it just yet, i think i'd first try installing sp2 before installing sp3.

this may help you :- http://support.microsoft.com/kb/953356

Edited by terry1966, 03 July 2012 - 10:04 PM.

[barebear]

Thanks to both of you --I'll report findings re processor and bios version after seeing the computer next Monday. Per my original post , per the owner a SP2 install failed several years ago and ( he doesn't remember how ) the system was restored to the current SP1 state. I was given to understand ( and will verify the next time I see the system and its owner ) that no hardware changes were ever made since the owner bought the computer brand new. Ztruker -- the link SP3 blue screen.... just takes me to a home page, not any specific article?

[Ztruker]

I see what you mean, looks like what ever that link pointed to at one time is no longer there, sorry.

Edited by Ztruker, 05 July 2012 - 06:29 PM.

[barebear]

For Ztruker.....

I got a chance to look at the computer today.

On the front it says Dimension 3100, not 3100C.

It has an Intel P4 at 2.8 Ghz, 1Gb RAM, onboard video display adapter Intel 82915G/GV/910GL.

System = Dell DV 051

Bios = A03 ( 10/8/05 )

Info from the BIOS:

clock speed 2.80Ghz, L2 cache = 1Mb, is hyperthread capable, has 64 bit technology ( Intel EM64T )

1 GBb RAM in Dimm 1 slot, speed 533 Mhz.

Channel mode = single

RAM is DDR2 SDRAM

I found out that when the SP2 install failed a couple of years ago the system was restored by booting into safe mode, running chkdsk, and then using System Restore to return to a pre SP2 point.

The computer owner told me that system restore prompted him to go back to a pre SP2 point. No hardware changes of any sort have been made to the system.

I don't dare doing a bios update because if it fails the computer essentially is a goner -- I can't risk that because it's operation is crucial to the functioning of the business and having a disk image is useless with a screwed up bios. Also per another post from terry1966 --

to be honest after having read that the only thing the A04 offers/fixes over the A03 bios (if that's what you have) is added support for a new cpu

I didn't have time to run chkdsk /f

Any ideas from you or anyone else re a plan of attack that doesn't involve a bios update ?

The owner is very cautious about going places on the internet, but none the less I feel he is at risk w/o having SP3 and security updates.

Edited by barebear, 05 July 2012 - 11:41 PM.

[terry1966]

I didn't have time to run chkdsk /f

to be honest i don't think you can do anything until you find the time to run the check first, and fix any errors it finds.
then i'd try doing the sp2 or sp3 update again.

think i read somewhere that disabling a cpu's virtualization in the bios (if you have that choice) before doing the update may let it complete without any problems, then enable it again after, but can't find the link now or remember exactly why it made a difference.

[barebear]

For terry1966...... I will try to run chkdsk /f next Monday, but maybe I can get to the rig tomorrow and set up the command prompt so that at close of business all the owner has to do is reboot and the process can run overnight. Should I go with chkdsk /f or chkdsk /f /r ? With that old a bios would there be a cpu virtualization option?!

Edited by barebear, 06 July 2012 - 02:31 AM.

[terry1966]

With that old a bios would there be a cpu virtualization option?!

no idea, depends totally on
a:- if the cpu has virtualization support (p4 does)
b:- what options the pc/bios makers decided to show a user.

Should I go with chkdsk /f or chkdsk /f /r ?

again no idea, starting to get out of my comfort zone now,
i always used chkdsk /r the very few times i tried to find a problem instead of just blitzing the hard drive and doing a complete re-install of the os.

when it comes to repairing/understanding a windows pc/os Ztruker is by far and away the person i'd prefer working on it than myself.

i only really joined the topic to answer your question about bios updating, it doesn't go wrong often but if it does then it's catastrophic.

and a bios update still may be your only solution after everything's said and done.

Edited by terry1966, 06 July 2012 - 06:03 AM.

[Ztruker]

Go with chkdsk /r. It takes longer but is a more comprehensive test as it also does a surface scan and attempts to fix and defective sectors it finds or if not fixable assign one of the unused sectors in it's place and marks the bad one unusable.

chkdsk /f can take 5-10 minutes.
chkdsk /r can take an hour or more.

Microsoft Windows XP - chkdsk

To run chkdsk, you are going to have to get into BIOS Setup on your computer to set the CD/DVD drive as the first bootable device, so you can then boot your XP CD, unless it provides the ability to press a Fn key at boot time to bring up the boot selection menu. If it does, use that.

How you do this varies with each manufacturer. Normally you press F1, F2, F10 or Del when you see the manufacturers logo. Often there is a clue somewhere on the screen when you boot normally telling you what key to press. Some computers (most newer ones) have a key you can press (often F12) to bring up the Boot Menu from where you can select the CD/DVD drive to boot from.

If you don't have an XP CD, download and run ARCDC by Artellos. It will download the required files from the Microsoft Web site and create a .iso file. It will also offer to burn the iso image to a CD for you. If you don't do it then, there is a good freeware burner called ImgBurn which will do it at a later time. If you're unsure how to do this, you can follow the tutorial here: How to Burn an ISO File. This can be done from any computer.

Boot the CD and at the first opportunity, enter R to start the Recovery Console.

Next, choose which XP installation you want to login to. Normally this will be 1.
Lastly you will be asked for the Administrator password. Just press the Enter key as the Administrator does not have a password (unless you gave it one, then you would enter it).

From the command prompt, enter: chkdsk /r
Allow it to complete undisturbed. It can take an hour or more depending on the size of the hard drive.

Remove the CD, type exit and the computer will reboot. Hopefully that will have fixed the problem (corrupted file system).